Unit upkeep

**leonidas302** · May 27, 2015, 12:06 PM

Is this normal or am I experiencing a bug? All the factions i've tried to play as seem to start off hemeroging money... I can barley build anything or do anything before I end up in minus figures :/

**Barnabas** · May 27, 2015, 12:20 PM

Factions which start with really large armies that they cannot support are usually the ones which have gathered quiet a force and now ready to wage war and conquer, resulting you playing the faction capturing settlement after settlement in order to expand enough that they eventually start making money from their conquests which is called "blitzing" as far as I know. As an alternative to this one can always disband their starting armies and start focusing on an economy okay enough to field new armies. As a general advice it is recommended to disband noncrucial cavalry and ships for they are the ones which consume the most..

**QuintusSertorius** · May 27, 2015, 12:25 PM

Factions do indeed tend to start off with much bigger armies than they can afford. Disband and/or stuff expensive units into minor settlements.

I'm completely re-working unit costs (and upkeep) in 2.02d, so far they're coming out lower in the main, so this should be less of a problem. Elite cavalry, elephants and fleets will still be expensive, though.

**Genghis Skahn** · May 27, 2015, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by leonidas302

Is this normal or am I experiencing a bug? All the factions i've tried to play as seem to start off hemeroging money... I can barley build anything or do anything before I end up in minus figures :/

How much money are you losing per turn? Virtually every faction starts off losing money(except some of the larger/powerful ones ie. Roma) with a bit of a debt crisis so as to challenge you and as well to accurately display to the player how damn expensive it was keeping armies in the field. They didn't come cheap, you know!

Assuming you AREN'T experiencing a economic bug(and I personally hope you aren't, because that would suck), I recommend expanding fast as each city captured will lessen debt and increase the size of the army you can afford. DON'T auto resolve battles/sieges as much as possible(especially sieges, because the auto resolve often damages buildings which you don't want to/can't afford to repair). That way, with good on field strategy, you can also minimize casualties, so as to keep your(somewhat hard/time consuming to replace) starting army in tact as much as possible. Don't be afraid to starve an army out during siege--ideally a force weaker than yours. Although, ideally, if an army sallies out early of their walls to attack you(they will automatically after protracted siege), your chances of victory can often be very amplified. Avoid rough in-street fighting in sieges; it's where you'll lose the most troops(which are expensive to recruit and maintain). If at all possible, siege them into the "Starvation sally out", or attack a nearby newly recruited 1-2unit stack close to a well garrisoned city to force their larger army into the field, and come to the rescue.

Disbanding your army entirely also works(for certain, usually isolated factions) if you want to start building up a surplus in funds and start building(and of course certain buildings increase your money in the long run). Just be careful you aren't too weak for your own good.

Ships, cavalry and other tougher units(elephants) are going to be expensive because by virtue of being historically accurate, it was quite expensive to muster up such forces. It was expensive enough for one man to own a horse himself, and when you consider the costs of feeding/generally maintaining a horse or an elephant(especially elephants were expensive to feed), and possibly the extra pay you had to give out to men who owned horses(a valuable resource) it definitely wasn't going to be cheap. Ships would require large amounts of timber, ship builders and a crew with a captain etc. etc.; all of whom you'd have to pay, so these are definite money drainers. I would definitely follow the advice of Barnabas: disband non-useful cavalry/ships in the early game. But only if they truly aren't going to be taking a direct part in your military campaigns.

**leonidas302** · May 27, 2015, 01:00 PM

I'll try the methods described thank you

but in more detail for example I was playing as Parthia and sent my army up north to capture a nomad camp. I took the city and decided to disband some units and my money became stable albeit only by a 100 denari per turn or so however when I ended the turn it suddenly went back to losing money even though I wasn't building or recruting anything :/

**Genghis Skahn** · May 27, 2015, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by leonidas302

I'll try the methods described thank you

but in more detail for example I was playing as Parthia and sent my army up north to capture a nomad camp. I took the city and decided to disband some units and my money became stable albeit only by a 100 denari per turn or so however when I ended the turn it suddenly went back to losing money even though I wasn't building or recruting anything :/

z3n could be right, there are good and bad harvests.

Did you sack the camp? that would have given you a one turn cash bonus, perhaps. Pahlava is going to have monetary difficulties in the early game(It was really quite something in EB1, in EB2 it should be far more balanced), anyway, being a single state nation which primarily relies on cavalry armies supplemented by infantry archers to win its battles. Try blitzing some of the nearby undefended seleukid cities. The Pahlava, more than any other eastern power MUST/should attack the seleukids early to have a real shot at power. You'll probably still have monetary difficulties after taking only one city anyway, by the way(especially that northern camp by the river you just took, which is more militarily important than economically important--although at the start of the game, any city is better than taking none). Try capturing some seleukid settlements close to you. Don't be afraid to start a war with them early, it's they who gain the advantage by biding time, being a massive empire; capture as much as you can before they can organize a resistance to you, leaving only skeleton garrisons to guard your newly captured/already held cities(you'll need all the troops you can get in the field). After blitzing these relatively unguarded cities, your money problems should be lessened, but not fixed, but beware, before your problems are fixed it's likely that the AS will counter attack in force. Make sure to meet them in the field rather than in a siege, as your cavalry dominant forces will have the advantage there. You MUST be fast as the pahlava to secure a firm power base from which to resist the AS(principally, by taking away their own power), and then quite possibly Baktria(leave them be for now, attacking them too early actually might cause you to overextend yourself, leaving you open to the saka and AS)

It won't be until you have secure control over rich/many lands(a fairly stable empire) that you'll truly see large or even truly reasonable surpluses.

To give you a proper example of what may happen: I usually play as the Boii, and like you lose money during my first turns. On my first capture(asanka, with an income of maybe 300-500 per turn) I might make a surplus(btw the Boii start with 2 cities, so this is in contrast to your single starter camp) of maybe 100 per turn--after I recruited 2 new units on the first turn to bolster my army-- so that's with three cities. I then move north to lugidunon, and increase my profits by about another 500-600 per turn by it's capture. After building allied govt's there I then attack the lugians(trying to kill all of the family members at once, so as to prevent hording, which is a whole other topic--and something that the pahlava can do, by the way), capturing lugouwa and getting another 500-700 minai per turn. From there I have a 5 state empire, with my closest enemy destroyed, and make maybe a 1000 profit per turn(with 5 territories, compared to vanilla, this isn't a terrible lot of money). It's only after I start to capture noreia, gorsissa, segesta, tarodunon and sigidunon that I start seeing a real increase to my profits-- a whole other 5 territories. But even all those extra territories make it difficult to field even 2 campaign armies.