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Thread: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

  1. #61
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    You're welcome! Yes, you'd be welcome to experiment with my mod and to create your own version (I suggest giving credit to taw for the research behind this as well as crediting me, if you use my files as a starting point.) Good luck!

  2. #62
    Markmilan's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    Players can use just one file at a time (they edit the same database table).The reasonable_diplomacy_reduce mod includes the the effect of territorial_expansion_reduce, so you don't need to use both files.I hope you enjoy your campaign!
    Thankyou

  3. #63

    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    Thank you Alwyn for responding to my questions (that was a while ago). Is there are way to make AI end wars quicker? Or do we know what causes AI to sign a truce? My problem with wars in Empire is that they sometimes last really long while nothing happens really (like France vs GB - I'm not sure If I ever saw an invasion). It would make more sense to have shorter, but more meaningful wars, with actual gains.

    Another thing is - can we theoretically make a mod which would cause AI allies to always help the player if the relations are good enough (like 300+ points) and to always join the war on the player's side when the player is attacked? It really bothers me when I'm attacked and my good ally won't join the war on my side.

  4. #64
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    Quote Originally Posted by SagezTW View Post
    Thank you Alwyn for responding to my questions (that was a while ago). Is there are way to make AI end wars quicker? Or do we know what causes AI to sign a truce? My problem with wars in Empire is that they sometimes last really long while nothing happens really (like France vs GB - I'm not sure If I ever saw an invasion). It would make more sense to have shorter, but more meaningful wars, with actual gains.
    You're welcome. In my tests of this mod, I found that wars tended to end more quickly because of the reduced diplomatic penalty for going to war. I know what you mean about wars sometimes lasting a long time without anything happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by SagezTW View Post
    Another thing is - can we theoretically make a mod which would cause AI allies to always help the player if the relations are good enough (like 300+ points) and to always join the war on the player's side when the player is attacked? It really bothers me when I'm attacked and my good ally won't join the war on my side.
    I doubt that it would be possible to make a mod which would cause AI allies to "always" help the player, or "always" join the war on the player's side. It might be possible to modify the chances of these things happening, but this would involve AI modding rather than simple diplomacy modding. I'd suggest looking for assistance in the Empire Total War Mod Workshop or trying a an existing AI mod such as Bran's Empire Campaign AI.

  5. #65

    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    Quote Originally Posted by SagezTW View Post
    Another thing is - can we theoretically make a mod which would cause AI allies to always help the player if the relations are good enough (like 300+ points) and to always join the war on the player's side when the player is attacked? It really bothers me when I'm attacked and my good ally won't join the war on my side.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    I'd suggest looking for assistance in the Empire Total War Mod Workshop or trying a an existing AI mod such as Bran's Empire Campaign AI.
    Bran's AI Pack is definitely the way to go if one wants allies to help a lot more. The parameters controlling such behavior is the highest among all the mods I've looked into. For example, playing as one of the small german states, I was "saved" by Austria - they sent a powerful force and parked them near my capital, repelling several enemy stacks coming my way. The vanilla AI has both low chances for help from allies and naval invasions, which is why Bran's AI is a must IMHO.

    As for ending wars sooner, like Alwyn said the initial penalty values for going to war can be adjusted. Also, the amount the penalty decreases each turn can be lowered quite a bit. Here are my own values:

    Try my ETW mods: Interface Enhancement Mod



  6. #66

    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    Thank you guys, that's really insightful. I'm definitely going to play some more and test things out.

  7. #67
    La♔De♔Da♔Brigadier Graham's Avatar Artifex♔Duffer♔Civitate
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    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    Excellent post and most helpful sir!

    "No problem can withstand the assault of sustained Dufferism"

  8. #68
    pchalk's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    Hi Alwyn, first let me say thank you for all the work you put in to this. I am happy to see someone try to tackle the diplomacy problems in ETW. I wanted to mention that I have likely run in to the bug that you wrote about in the first post. I am playing as Sweden on turn 1709 Summer while using reasonable diplomacy remove. I have just taken Moscow and Algiers in the turn. Then as I click to end the turn the game locks up and I am unable to do anything but restart my computer. I am also running the AUM mod and the UPC German which goes with it. Not sure if you have any tips. I can also send you the save game if you are interested.

  9. #69
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    Thanks to everyone for your helpful comments.

    pchalk, I'm sorry to hear that your campaign locks up on a specific turn. Unfortunately, I don't know of a solution, I am sorry about that. I suggest removing my mod and trying a diplomacy mod by BraselC5048 instead. I hope that this works for you, good luck!

  10. #70

    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    This mod works very well until mid/late campaign, I had the problem (4/4 campaigns) with an excessively passive AI once everyone made peace with each other. Faction that should be antagonistic (i.e. Poland, Russia, UK and Austria) end up being buddies and forming huge colations ultimately leaving them without a counter balance.

    Perhaps less drastic changes may fix this?

    Thank you for the mod, I've seen your name among the nominees for best modder! Good luck my dude (or dudette)!

  11. #71
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    Thanks for the helpful feedback and your kind comments! I wonder which of the four versions of the mod you were using.

  12. #72

    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    I was using the basic version reasonable_diplomacy_reduce with Imperial Splendour 2.21b.

    My hopes were to stop Poland and Austria to conquer Europe in 60 turns and preserve the territorial status quo in Europe. IS has this issue (I think may be caused by stats/autoresolve) and it ultimately fixed it. However, after the initial wars extinguish, everything stabilizes into peace for the rest of the campaign, excepting Britain & United Provinces vs. France & Spain .

    I've seen factions in war being "Indifferent" with each other and so, the peace bonus may make them even more friendly. Do you use a "cap" for the "war" value in the diplomacy_attitudes_table? Setting the cap in minus 30-40 may do the trick.

    Currently, I'm modifying the IS .pack myself and merging it with a shiton of mods, solved the expansion issue, while keeping the AI still aggressive. Let's see the late campaign though...
    Last edited by iporto9393; June 15, 2019 at 05:32 PM.

  13. #73
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    Thanks, I don't know how this mod and Imperial Splendour interact. If Imperial Splendour modifies the same database table, the effects you're seeing might come from either mod. (One way to resolve this would be to change this mod's type from 'movie' to 'mod' in Pack File Manager, and then to add it to the list of mod files in your user script file. By putting this above or below the Imperial Splendour mods in the list, you could change the order in which the mod files are loaded.)

    The versions of the mod in the OP don't use a cap for the war value in the diplomacy_attitudes_table.

    More reasonable diplomacy (v1.01 beta)

    Below is a link to a new version of reasonable_diplomacy_reduce. This is different in two ways, using your ideas:
    1. You suggested less drastic changes. With this version, the territorial expansion penalty should be reduced by 5 per turn (compared to 10 per turn in the original version of the original mod).
    2. You also suggested a cap of -30 or -40 in the 'war' value in the diplomacy attitudes table. This version has a cap of -30.

    The instructions for installing and uninstalling this mod are in the OP. I'm calling this version 1.01 beta (I'm calling it 'beta' because I've tested it for 40 turns in one campaign, so it hasn't been tested through a whole campaign or in several campaigns). If anyone wants to try this, I'd be interested to see your feedback.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Alwyn; June 16, 2019 at 08:01 AM.

  14. #74

    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    New version, noyce!

    IS 2.21b doesn't change the diplomacy_attiude_tables, it does change the Campaign AI to some degree though. Right now, I'm playing it with an adapted version of Bran's AI and a custom made diplomacy mod. On turn 70 everything seems to be very good, factions are still hostile while in war, unfriendly when dragged into war and still dislike each other after peace has been made. I attribute this to lower relationship on "Trade" (+15, drifting +1 up to 40) and the "War" cap at -30!

    Soon as I finish I will test your version!

  15. #75
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    Quote Originally Posted by iporto9393 View Post
    Soon as I finish I will test your version!
    Me too along with your mod.


    @Alywn: Thanks for the update.

    +rep to both of you
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  16. #76

    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    Hello Alwyn, it seems AI never make peace with another AI factions. AI offers me peace, and accept a peace offer from me however, I never seen AI making peace with another AI even if they are not in their region of interests (ex: Poland and France)

    [size=13pt]Faction Stärke: Starke All-Raound[/size]

  17. #77

    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    Hey Alwyn.
    Long ago (very years ago) i used to play ETW with mods, but i liked the minimods; diplomacy, weather, flags, range units.. A few months ago i wanted to end the road to win the last achievements for the ETW.. in vanilla.. After play NTW, S2, RotS, Rome 2, and dlc's, its kind frustating.. But i played and now i want to play with some mods again.. Its hard to find the mods that i want: can you pls help me..??
    The minimods for Flags, Weather (hate the heavy rain), artillery mods, and some others..
    Beforehand, thanks lads..
    Terror Belli... Decus Pacis

  18. #78
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    Grenadier, I'm sorry for not commenting before. This mod simply adjusts the penalty to diplomacy between the player's faction and other factions, when the player acquires regions. I don't know whether it's possible to change the willingness of AI factions to make peace with each other. You could try Bran's Empire Campaign AI (if you do, I suggest using this version, to reduce the risk of the Ottoman turn bug.)

    Hey Franz von Overbeck, welcome to TWC! There's a link to a weather mod in a list of my mods (towards the bottom of the list).

    You asked about a mod for flags. I suggest using the optional graphics pack for the Additional Units Mod, you can get it from the download links here. (You can use the graphics pack with or without using the Additional Units Mod itself).

    If you'd like units to have a longer range (including muskets as well as cannon) and better battle AI, you could try Bran's Battle AI. I'm wondering what you'd like your artillery mod to do. If you'd simply like cannon to have a longer range, there's a mini-mod as part of These United Colonies. The mini-mod can be used with or without These United Colonies, there's one version of it on the mod's OP and a different version in the second post. However, you won't need this mod if you use Bran's Battle AI, as Bran's mod already changes the range of projectiles.

  19. #79

    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    Thanks Alwyn..
    Ill use many of them.. oh, and about other mod that i can't find anywhere.. the unit recruitment order.
    Gen, Cav, Art, Inf... But in the ETW.. anything is anywhere.. hate that..

    Terror Belli Decus Pacis

  20. #80
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: More reasonable diplomacy mini-mod (using taw's research into the territorial expansion problem, v10, May 16, 2015)

    You're welcome. I don't think I've seen a unit recruitment order mod, so I can't tell you where it is, unfortunately. I hope you'll find it.

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