Europa Barbarorum 2.08e is released!

[Rym]

Hi Anubis88! That's indeed good to hear! Something I forgot to mention: There is alot of naval activity on the part of Rome. They declared war on Carthage and on KH just to blockade some ports for a turn or two... but it didn't seem to be part of a larger masterplan!

[josnika]

Hmm, can you describe the quality/quantity of the troops in the city? Also the Epeirote fleet problem again- really not sure I can make Epeiros ,specifically, work well as the CAI will prioritize the territory it still wants to hold (for example taras) as a defensive priority especially if it thinks it will lose too much of it's military strength taking back it's cities... I had to go for a 'balance' there and also a balance in terms of sieges- I wanted the besieging army to try to outnumber it's enemy still by an ok margin with reinforcements instead of going for 1:1 ratios (which is a gamble and historically inaccurate anyways) or thereabouts unless necessary and also remember to defend it's own cities/fronts of war.

I presume when they sallied forth they outnumbered you? This new sally forth is to prevent the surrenders without a fight sort of thing that happens all too often although I made the ratio so they would outnumber the besiegers unless on their final turn before surrender. I could likely raise the ratio of sieges yet again- but the balance of reinforcing armies when available may be affected... Hence my on the conservative side- attitude, but that is not to say that there is not an overall ratio up in terms of the CAI besieging as evidenced by my own testing/others.


Just to clarify- an enemy army will besiege settlements if it is at 125% strength or above of the army within the settlement. This is (in my opinion) the lowest I could go without destroying historical accuracy and also keep the reinforcement rate for besiegers decent.

They outnumbered me by a lot more than 125%, Pyrrhus was there with his elephants and high quality infantry. I would say when quantity was taken into account then he probably outnumbered me by around 300% at least. However, when they sallied forth they did outnumber me which is good.

[QuintusSertorius]

Is anyone playing a Hellenistic faction? What do you think of the new recruiting arrangements (especially the restriction on Phalangitai)?

[DeathtoEgo]

Why is there restrictions on phalangitai recruitment shouldn't phalangites, man for man, be more numerous than any other Hellenistic soldier?

[QuintusSertorius]

Why is there restrictions on phalangitai recruitment shouldn't phalangites, man for man, be more numerous than any other Hellenistic soldier?

Absolutely not. The Phalangitai unit represents true Macedonian soldiers, who were an extremely prized and scarce resource in the Hellenistic world. So much so that the Diadochi were more than willing to let defeated phalanxes surrender and switch sides, rather than waste trained pikemen.

There are "lesser" phalanx units - the Pantodapoi Phalangitai, Machimoi Phalangitai and Illyrioi Peltophoroi - who you should be using to fill out your armies if you need more pikemen. Or hire mercenaries. There's one more unit to come in the summer release - Deuteroi Phalangitai, who are the western "levy" phalanx though their availability is pretty restricted too.

Just because a phalanx unit is large, doesn't mean they're easy to come by. That's precisely the point, you need a minimum critical mass of Macedonian settlers in order to be able to raise a phalanx. There are just three places with high enough concentrations, without exporting your own: Pella, Alexandreia and Antiocheia. Otherwise you need to establish Hellenistic military colonies (the second level provides Phalangitai), or take places that have them.

[Dirty Chai]

I think I very much approve of the new CAI as well.

I'm not 100% sure, but in my latest Saka Rauka game, I seem to have "tricked" the Bactrians into sending all of their affordable field army units into a flat plains battle against my horse archers. Which has led to complete annihilitation, from what I can tell through use of my spy, of their field army strength. It's all just garrison forces now.

Although this was a stupid move on part of the Bactrians, it feels so much more smooth and appreciable than fighting a bunch of piecemeal forces throughout Transoxiana, Sogdia, and Bactria. The Bactrians would not be so foolish as to send their military all out into the open like that (I'd think), but I think putting all their forces together into one is much more historical for the Greeks. They just wouldn't typically send it into the steppe.

For example, this would work in AAR much better as well. Explaining how a field army was devastated, leaving Bactria wide open, is much more authentic than fighting some sort of endless campaign against piecemeal units throughout the Oxus river valley.

Thanks from my side!

[jordiebenardus]

I'm going to report on my first 35 turns in 2.02b as Pergamon, the first few turns Epeiros captured Pella and they lose Taras. I stormed the Ptolemaioi and invade rhodes, opening a path to invade crete and mainland greece. I fought mainly against Koinon Helenon I must say they have the largest force in greece (3.5 stacks) but also it comprises in several different manners, the Faction leader have mainly Hoplitai and Epilektoi supported by Hippakonsistai and Hippeis with psiloi. One of the army garrisoned in Sparte comprised mainly of Hoplitai Haploi and Psiloi with several Epilektoi (not more than 2), The Athenian garrison are mainly Hoplitai and Hoplitai Haploi with numerous psiloi and 2 hippeis. The Epeiros maintain 1 stack of field army, 1 stack garrisoning Demetrias, and 1 stack splitted in Ambrakia and Epidamnos. Im guessing this is due to the Phalangitai restriction their army mainly comprise of Illyrians (hoplitai and peltophoroi) psiloi (Hellenic skirmishers) and Illyrian and Hippeis cavalry. By this time usually Makedon dominates greece with 4 stacks field army but currently there are no stack spam. Victories (so far in turn 36) are in my opinion more decisive the Epeirotes failed to levied another army as seen in 2.01, Makedon and Koinon Hellenon entered a cold war in southern greece. And Aitolia remains unchallenged (unscatched army of 2 stacks comprising of levies and psiloi).

[Dirty Chai]

I think I very much approve of the new CAI as well.

I'm not 100% sure, but in my latest Saka Rauka game, I seem to have "tricked" the Bactrians into sending all of their affordable field army units into a flat plains battle against my horse archers. Which has led to complete annihilitation, from what I can tell through use of my spy, of their field army strength. It's all just garrison forces now.

Although this was a stupid move on part of the Bactrians, it feels so much more smooth and appreciable than fighting a bunch of piecemeal forces throughout Transoxiana, Sogdia, and Bactria. The Bactrians would not be so foolish as to send their military all out into the open like that (I'd think), but I think putting all their forces together into one is much more historical for the Greeks. They just wouldn't typically send it into the steppe.

For example, this would work in AAR much better as well. Explaining how a field army was devastated, leaving Bactria wide open, is much more authentic than fighting some sort of endless campaign against piecemeal units throughout the Oxus river valley.

Thanks from my side!

And now the Saka Rauka campaign is much harder, because while you can't afford to lose much men in each engagement (no money for a very long time), the Bactrians can afford to lose armies and can easily make new ones.

Good job to the EB team, and to z3n.

[justme]

reporting a couple of things I noticed while trying out 2.02c

a) the movement points of spies need to be toned down somehow ... in just two turns I managed to scout the whole of Gaul with my Roman spy, in just 6 turns I had scouted practically the whole of Europe!
b) as Rome I seemed to get too much money - I quickly became the richest faction in the world and if I didn't spend my money on mercs (I got a nice full stack to fight the Epirotes in no time) and the most expensive buildings I'd soon have hit the 100K mark. Perhaps the amount of money still needs some toning down.
c) BAI looked good... CAI perhaps not 100% but still interesting. I explain:
I besieged Taras with a half stack consular army - waited a couple of seasons to get my towers in place. Before I could assault, the CAI brings in a 80% full stack as a relief force and forces me to pull back... that was the good part. The bad part is that the CAI doesn't follow up on its advantage - instead of following me to crush my army before it's reinforced, they just stood beside the fortified city guarding it. Using my unlimited funds (see b) I reinforced my army to 100% and attacked (night battle to take the Epirotes in detail)...
The battle was nice - even though outnumbered the enemy tried to flank my long line of infantry. Tried to use his cavalry for that - but I sprang a nice trap for his general ... he ended up fighting against 4 of my cavalry units. Once he died, his army collapsed ... game over!

d) fiddling around with the hellenistic factions, I liked the scarcity of phalanxes ... didn't play much though to see how it affects the game.
Also, and I know this is extreme nitpicking (grammar nazi - I do that often), I noticed some problems with your Greek ... some are more obvious (how come you guys missed these?), like the genitives of Herakles and Soter (you've written Naos "Heraklou" instead of the correct Naos "Herakleous", or Dios "Soterou", instead of the correct Dios "Soteros") ... other less obvious, like the syntax of the preposition epi, which (I think) should rather be used with dative instead of accusative to express what you're trying to say (you say epimeliteia epi "hellenas", I think it's best to say epimeliteia epi "tois hellesi" - accusative usually coveys a meaning of movement, dative conveys state or condition) ... and finally there are cases where I think a wrong term is used, like for example you say epimeliteia epi "laous" (should be "laois" in dative), but you should probably use the term "ethni" instead (not "people", but rather "nations" - similarly you say "laarchia", I think "ethnarchia" is better)

I'll report anything else I find...

[torzsoktamas]

There's one more unit to come in the summer release - Deuteroi Phalangitai, who are the western "levy" phalanx though their availability is pretty restricted too.

At the twitter page,back then,there was shown a leukaspides phalangitai.What will that be?It's just a simple soldier in the deuteroi phalangitai or a complitely other unit?

[QuintusSertorius]

b) as Rome I seemed to get too much money - I quickly became the richest faction in the world and if I didn't spend my money on mercs (I got a nice full stack to fight the Epirotes in no time) and the most expensive buildings I'd soon have hit the 100K mark. Perhaps the amount of money still needs some toning down.

The player side of the economy hasn't been touched - yes, the Romans are rich. For roleplaying purposes, try to keep two consular armies in the field (but stationed in a minor settlement if not active) at all times.

At the twitter page,back then,there was shown a leukaspides phalangitai.What will that be?It's just a simple soldier in the deuteroi phalangitai or a complitely other unit?

Deuteroi will represent Leukaspides (and others), there's no new unit.

[Maniac21]

Nabatean diplomats have barbarian faces, is it ok? And no faces at all in dialogs

[Maniac21]

Nabatean diplomats have barbarian faces, is it ok? And no faces at all in dialogs
Oh, I see, that's not "barbarian faces", they look like the last person I've seen before them, Roman, Greek, any face. Something's wrong with my computer or is it a bug?

[Kickaha]

I notice that free upkeep in cities is in, but only for some factions and certain buildings. What's the intention behind the selection of factions/buildings?

[Thuycidides]

I went back to 2.01 after 2.02a, and I skipped 2.02b because I figured there would probably be a 2.02c.

So, is this the one?

d) fiddling around with the hellenistic factions, I liked the scarcity of phalanxes ... didn't play much though to see how it affects the game.
Also, and I know this is extreme nitpicking (grammar nazi - I do that often), I noticed some problems with your Greek ... some are more obvious (how come you guys missed these?), like the genitives of Herakles and Soter (you've written Naos "Heraklou" instead of the correct Naos "Herakleous", or Dios "Soterou", instead of the correct Dios "Soteros") ... other less obvious, like the syntax of the preposition epi, which (I think) should rather be used with dative instead of accusative to express what you're trying to say (you say epimeliteia epi "hellenas", I think it's best to say epimeliteia epi "tois hellesi" - accusative usually coveys a meaning of movement, dative conveys state or condition) ... and finally there are cases where I think a wrong term is used, like for example you say epimeliteia epi "laous" (should be "laois" in dative), but you should probably use the term "ethni" instead (not "people", but rather "nations" - similarly you say "laarchia", I think "ethnarchia" is better)

If you know what you're talking about then I admire you. Attic greek is supposed to be one of the hardest ancient languages you can study. The declension thing makes my head hurt.

[QuintusSertorius]

I notice that free upkeep in cities is in, but only for some factions and certain buildings. What's the intention behind the selection of factions/buildings?

It's a concept that predates my joining the team. I don't think we've ever gotten to the bottom of a consistent approach for free upkeep. A complicating factor is that with the various rosters largely unfinished, there's a lot of placeholders for both regular units and mercenaries, making the application of free upkeep difficult.

I went back to 2.01 after 2.02a, and I skipped 2.02b because I figured there would probably be a 2.02c.

So, is this the one?

For now, yes. I've restored the old (if barmy) colony system and don't intend to release a 2.02d unless something major is found that needs to be addressed.

[Kickaha]

It's a concept that predates my joining the team. I don't think we've ever gotten to the bottom of a consistent approach for free upkeep. A complicating factor is that with the various rosters largely unfinished, there's a lot of placeholders for both regular units and mercenaries, making the application of free upkeep difficult.

I'd like to suggest that in the summer update each faction be given a low-quality militia unit with the is_peasant attribute. The militia should be the only unit on a faction's roster with the free_upkeep_unit attribute - the others will have to be billeted in minor settlements to get free upkeep. Perhaps non-urban factions should have to complete their reforms before the militia is available, as maintaining a city guard requires a certain level of organisation.
It would help to be able to move governors out of cities, for Roman elections for example, without getting the 'no government' penalty or having to station front-line troops in them.

[torzsoktamas]

I played a custom battle with Taksashila,and have a few points I would like to share: (I haven't played with them until now,so wanted to try them out before I chose a faction to play a campaign)

1)Their lowest tier spear infantry(don't know their name) are quite weak.I mean really weak,but I think this is intentional and isn't a big problem(and is probably historical too).I think it would be a good idea to pump their numbers up to 240 from 200 soldiers per unit,since they need that extra men,and besides,indians had a HUGE army back then numerically,compared to other nations.

2)Their chariots have 50 soldiers in a unit according to their unit card in the custom battle screen,but in battle they have only 30.Which is just 10 chariots with 3 soldiers each.I think their number should be a bit higher too,since otherwise they would not be usefull.

Other than this,they are awesome.Their elefants are awesome!

[b0Gia de Bodemloze]

About this:

How do I install this?

This is an incremental update to Europa Barbarorum II version 2.01. You need a clean, unmodified installation of 2.01 if you don't already have it). That means if you've been using b0Gia's submod compilation, for example, you will need to uninstall and re-install 2.01. These changes are not compatible, but b0Gia's later modpacks, issued after this update will be.

I updated my modpack, so you can use it again. It is cumulatively with 2.02c patch but not save game compatible. Have fun and study more History!

[Iaius Statius Laurentius]

If you know what you're talking about then I admire you. Attic greek is supposed to be one of the hardest ancient languages you can study. The declension thing makes my head hurt.

He's got a sharp eye and I'm pleased somebody's looking out for this stuff.

But if you ever wanted to learn it, it's actually not that hard at all. What he's pointing out is the difference in declension type -- third vs second -- and that's honestly just a matter of memorization and experience. Like, once you learn the genitive of polis is poleos (πολεως, omega instead of omicron bc of qualitative metathesis) then you've learned it. Learning the forms is easy. The grammar rules are harder, bc of different contexts demanding special usages and stuff.

If you have a chance to learn Attic Greek, take it and don't be scared off by things like the alphabet or the declensions. Super easy to memorize. The declensions themselves take a little bit to understand but you already know English grammar and it'll help you understand when to use which declension. It'll make your English better too.

Also you can learn Latin first. It's not easier (and has sine difficult concepts like sequence of tenses and indirect statement) but it'll seem more comfortable due to linguistic familiarity. And once you've kearned Latin, Greek won't seem scary at all. It'll be fun, in fact.

Then when you play EB and hear "kata ton polemion" and "insigna ferte!" youll just get it.