Europa Barbarorum 2.08e is released!

[HaHawk]

It's not a crash as far as I know, you just have to wait awhile/some time. Possibly as many as 2.5-30 minutes depending on how old your computer is. (assuming yours is old from your post)

The seleukids are causing pahvala or another hordable faction to enter horde state which slows things down due to how the exe is optimized in regards to that.

I can concur on this. I have quite a powerful computer and once thought the game crashed after hitting end turn. Normally each faction only requires 2 to 8 seconds to finish their moves, but on this particular occasion the screen froze on one city (or character?) for over 30 or 40 seconds. I patiently walked away from the computer for a couple of minutes and when I returned, the turn had indeed finished without issue. It must have been the result of the AI making an in-depth calculation. Either way, it was only temporary, and the game did not​ crash. Sometimes you just have to let the computer sort things out for a while...

[Titus le Chmakus]

Yep and if you precisely look at the scrolling faction list on the top, you will notice that it does not stop on each faction but sometimes jump 3 or 4. So in total, you will wait the same time before it is your turn again.

[HaHawk]

In the depths of my ignorance I completely did not realize, until recently, that in battle deployment phase one has to "prep" the enemy AI by clicking the flashing face of your adviser on the top-left corner of one's screen.

This is only for custom battles, right? I don't get an advisor notice at the beginning of battles in campaign mode... at least I don't think I do...

[Darkan]

The advisor pops up during campaign battles as well (provided you selected the advisor on the first screen, before starting), usually in the preparation phase. I don't think it appears if the AI sallies during a siege.

[QuintusSertorius]

I can't find the comment about industry buildings being underwhelming, now, but I'm looking into this. I agree that a flat income bonus, which isn't very high, makes them an extremely poor return on investment. As well as a missed opportunity to do something interesting with the building. I'm looking at adding two things:
1) A trade bonus - this will be variable because trade changes every season. It would represent trade goods produced by the industries.
2) A resource-based income bonus - so that there's a linkage with what's actually present in a region and that different regions will give different amounts of income from industry.

[Sylon]

Note that ports give a bonus to trade if industry buildings are present in the same province.

Resource based income bonuses sounds interesting. If it doesn't take up additional building slots, a possible idea would be to make different upgrade paths based on groupings of resources.

For example:

Metalcrafting Industry (Only available in regions with copper/tin/iron/lead resources. Maybe give reduced recruitment/retraining costs on top of income bonus?)
Jewelry Industry (Only available in regions with precious metals/stones or amber. Give additional happiness/trade?)
Winery (Only available in regions with wine. Give additional happiness/trade?)
Stoneworking Industry (Only available in regions with quarries. Gives small reduction to build costs?)
Oil Presses (Only available in regions with olives. Gives bonus to trade)

etc.

This makes individual resources more important and visible to the player, since right now ivory, tin, and olives are functionally identical, except for trade value.

Just a suggestion.

[QuintusSertorius]

Note that ports give a bonus to trade if industry buildings are present in the same province.

Resource based income bonuses sounds interesting. If it doesn't take up additional building slots, a possible idea would be to make different upgrade paths based on groupings of resources.

For example:

Metalcrafting Industry (Only available in regions with copper/tin/iron/lead resources. Maybe give reduced recruitment/retraining costs on top of income bonus?)
Jewelry Industry (Only available in regions with precious metals/stones or amber. Give additional happiness/trade?)
Winery (Only available in regions with wine. Give additional happiness/trade?)
Stoneworking Industry (Only available in regions with quarries. Gives small reduction to build costs?)
Oil Presses (Only available in regions with olives. Gives bonus to trade)

etc.

This makes individual resources more important and visible to the player, since right now ivory, tin, and olives are functionally identical, except for trade value.

Just a suggestion.

They do, but I think the bonuses trade_base_bonus as they are currently in the EDB are tiny, so there isn't really an issue in that direction. They may need reviewing generally if they're not actually having a great deal of impact.

Within the industry building, I could easily give different trade boosts depending on different bundles of resources, but the added effects are going to be harder to implement and balance. I'd rather keep this within the building we have, using trade bonuses. The industry building is about production and trade, we should keep it focused on that.

[justme]

They do, but I think the bonuses trade_base_bonus as they are currently in the EDB are tiny, so there isn't really an issue in that direction. They may need reviewing generally if they're not actually having a great deal of impact.

Within the industry building, I could easily give different trade boosts depending on different bundles of resources, but the added effects are going to be harder to implement and balance. I'd rather keep this within the building we have, using trade bonuses. The industry building is about production and trade, we should keep it focused on that.

though it may be more difficult to balance, it would be interesting if you could implement a model where buildings which produce goods (like the "industry" building) or food (like farms) give a "tax increase" bonus, while only buildings which are involved in the distribution/importing/exporting of these goods (like ports or markets) give a "trade increase" bonus

I feel it makes more sense this way – the former representing farmers/artisans paying their dues in kind (i.e. part of their produce), while the latter representing a general boost in the money-based economy of the region (i.e. generating income in hard currency). In the end, both sources of income are translated into mnai, but this system helps differentiate between buildings and their respective roles, as well as role-play the dual nature of ancient economy (i.e. currency and barter exchanges co-existing in everyday life)

[QuintusSertorius]

though it may be more difficult to balance, it would be interesting if you could implement a model where buildings which produce goods (like the "industry" building) or food (like farms) give a "tax increase" bonus, while only buildings which are involved in the distribution/importing/exporting of these goods (like ports or markets) give a "trade increase" bonus

I feel it makes more sense this way – the former representing farmers/artisans paying their dues in kind (i.e. part of their produce), while the latter representing a general boost in the money-based economy of the region (i.e. generating income in hard currency). In the end, both sources of income are translated into mnai, but this system helps differentiate between buildings and their respective roles, as well as role-play the dual nature of ancient economy (i.e. currency and barter exchanges co-existing in everyday life)

I'm not sure I see it quite the same way. The income you get from trade represents excises, duties and other taxes levied on goods when they arrive/leave the port or city gates. It's not really significant enough to represent more than that. The income from farming represents rents and given it uses the much bigger level bonus, it probably captures duties and taxes on farm produce as well.

[madmatg]

I can't find the comment about industry buildings being underwhelming, now, but I'm looking into this. I agree that a flat income bonus, which isn't very high, makes them an extremely poor return on investment. As well as a missed opportunity to do something interesting with the building. I'm looking at adding two things:
1) A trade bonus - this will be variable because trade changes every season. It would represent trade goods produced by the industries.
2) A resource-based income bonus - so that there's a linkage with what's actually present in a region and that different regions will give different amounts of income from industry.

That's great!

[justme]

I'm not sure I see it quite the same way. The income you get from trade represents excises, duties and other taxes levied on goods when they arrive/leave the port or city gates. It's not really significant enough to represent more than that. The income from farming represents rents and given it uses the much bigger level bonus, it probably captures duties and taxes on farm produce as well.

Well, it was just a suggestion based on my understanding of things … but perhaps I didn’t explain my point too well either.

What I was trying to say was that the engine gives us two interesting building capabilities in the EDB – the tax increase bonus (taxable_income_bonus) and the trade increase bonus (trade_base_income_bonus).

In your EDB – correct me if I’m wrong – you use only the latter to represent any and all kinds of increased income generated by a building (wherever you deem such an increase applicable/justified). I was therefore basically suggesting you use the former capability together with the latter to give a bit more depth to the economic development of a province.

In view of this, I was just suggesting that the trade_base_income_bonus be used only for buildings directly engaged in trade (like ports or markets), while using the taxable_income_bonus to represent income from actual taxation in all buildings with an economic activity.

In this scheme, income (mnai) from trade_base_income_bonus can be seen as the net result of a general economic boost in the province caused by increased “foreign” trade (i.e. trade with other provinces) – which even in ancient times was based on currency/money (silver drachmas were the dollar of those days), whereas income (mnai) from taxable_income_bonus refers to the proceeds of direct taxation of goods/services/whatever within the province (usually paid in kind/produce in ancient agrarian societies, less often in coin).

Thus, you could design your EDB so that farms or province industries increase the faction’s income only according to a taxable_income_bonus (you tax their activity, they cough up the cash), while ports and markets give you the economic boost (the engine translates this to mnai) according to trade_base_income_bonus AND increase your income further as you tax their economic activity (i.e. tariffs on export/import, etc) according to a taxable_income_bonus.

At the end of the day, both capabilities boil down to increased income for the faction (both translate to more mnai as I said), and what I describe is just one way of seeing things – not necessarily the best/most accurate… but I thought I’d make the suggestion anyway, hoping to help enhance the economic aspect of the various buildings (for extra immersion and role-playing).

You may consider this or a similar scheme … or not … it’s just a suggestion.

[QuintusSertorius]

I understand you now. Does the taxable_income_bonus work? It's certainly an additional lever we could use, given it isn't used at all (though there may be a reason for that, I'd have to check). The only thing that makes me slightly wary is that tax incomes are pretty large, so a bonus there will have much more impact than one on trade. There's one other economic factor we do use, farm_level_bonus, which farming buildings have, though that has a pretty big impact (just like the companion trade_level_bonus does).

[justme]

I understand you now. Does the taxable_income_bonus work? It's certainly an additional lever we could use, given it isn't used at all (though there may be a reason for that, I'd have to check). The only thing that makes me slightly wary is that tax incomes are pretty large, so a bonus there will have much more impact than one on trade. There's one other economic factor we do use, farm_level_bonus, which farming buildings have, though that has a pretty big impact (just like the companion trade_level_bonus does).

as far as I know taxable_income_bonus does work (there's another one taxable_something capability that doesn't)... and yes, it can be difficult to balance (I admitted as much in my earlier post) - it may require changing the costs for everything (buildings/units/upkeep, etc).

you may want to check RS2 for RTW ... they use the taxable_income_bonus extensively and the mod is well balanced (of course that's RTW).

I don't know about farm_level_bonus, but the way I see it, the more nuanced the economic model is, the more satisfaction one gets from completing a building (extra points for immersion) - so anything you can work into your model is for the better.

PS: remember, it's just an idea ... it may be too much work to implement all these capabilities into the economic model and the AI may well prove unable to take full advantage of it in the end (in RTW it did, but I don't know about MTW2)

[b0Gia de Bodemloze]

The guy who told that my rtw sound mod isn't working and anyone else who wants, please go and download the 2nd part and tell me if fixed.

[Thuycidides]

Just a heads up for Quintus...

My Armenian body guard cavalry just got crushed by Sarmatian body guard cavalry in melee combat. At first I was surprised because the Armenian body guards have better attack and defense on paper, but in the export_descrunit it turns out that the Sarmatian secondary weapon is ap and the Armenian secondary weapon is not.

[Tactics Mayers]

Just played the Bosphorians for 83 turns and I'm loving so far the improvements to EB2.

The fact that the conflict in EB2

[Tactics Mayers]

Just played the Bosphorians for 83 turns and I'm loving so far the improvements to EB2.

The fact that the conflict in EB2

The fact that the conflict between factions is balanced (not too aggressive like EB1 Very Hard but not too passive) as conflicts, ceasefires and expansions happen. The Romans are now the historical powerhouse as seen on the map as they are not expanding towards Greece after beating Carthage and taking over Sicily and forcing the Boii to become their protectorate. Hayasdan is also no longer fixated on attacking the steppes. But unfortunately the Selucids are still the juggernaut of EB.

I have a problem with the schools though. My generals seem to either be getting little to benefits from learning in a school. Same goes for my spy and assassin. Also, what are the advantages and disadvantages of total cultural conversion? Would I be able to activate a reform or acquire a special unit? Would I be able to slowly be able to be a Level 1 government and recruit of all of my factions units even if that area wasn't their historically? Also, do the Bosphorians have their Heavy Archers?

If the update today is this excellent. I can't imagine how great the "summer" release would be.

Sorry for quote, My finger slipped. ^^;

[QuintusSertorius]

Just a heads up for Quintus...

My Armenian body guard cavalry just got crushed by Sarmatian body guard cavalry in melee combat. At first I was surprised because the Armenian body guards have better attack and defense on paper, but in the export_descrunit it turns out that the Sarmatian secondary weapon is ap and the Armenian secondary weapon is not.

Good spot, their description says they have a machaira (ie kopis) which should be ap. Updated.

I have a problem with the schools though. My generals seem to either be getting little to benefits from learning in a school. Same goes for my spy and assassin.

Schools have the most impact on younger FMs. It's a subtle thing in any case, and the effect is stronger with higher level schools.

As to agents, it's the Academy (level 3 school) and above that have an impact, not the lower ones.

Also, what are the advantages and disadvantages of total cultural conversion? Would I be able to activate a reform or acquire a special unit? Would I be able to slowly be able to be a Level 1 government and recruit of all of my factions units even if that area wasn't their historically?

No reform impacts of conversion. What it does is unlock higher tier governments. Even then, most of your Hellenistic factional units will come from the polis and helcol buildings, not your government type.

Also, do the Bosphorians have their Heavy Archers?

Not yet. Nor for that matter do they yet have their correct FM bodyguard unit.

[Tactics Mayers]

Good spot, their description says they have a machaira (ie kopis) which should be ap. Updated.



Schools have the most impact on younger FMs. It's a subtle thing in any case, and the effect is stronger with higher level schools.

As to agents, it's the Academy (level 3 school) and above that have an impact, not the lower ones.



No reform impacts of conversion. What it does is unlock higher tier governments. Even then, most of your Hellenistic factional units will come from the polis and helcol buildings, not your government type.



Not yet. Nor for that matter do they yet have their correct FM bodyguard unit.

Also about those Mines, for such a long and expensive project, its income is a bit low compared to the previous EB mines (1500-2500).

[QuintusSertorius]

Also about those Mines, for such a long and expensive project, its income is a bit low compared to the previous EB mines (1500-2500).

Income is based on the resources in the area - some places give more than others. Don't forget, though, the return could be over a very long time indeed, if you build it early enough.