Europa Barbarorum 2.08e is released!

[AdAstraPuA]

I actually came in to report the same thing :

The koinon hold Hellas + Rhodos and Knossos.

Must be olympic games...

[QuintusSertorius]

Also a bug I found was when you click on the peltast description of Pergamon in their city will make the game crash. Not sure why but it does it all the time.

I've tried it repeatedly, with both the polis and government building and no crash. What does your log say?

[QuintusSertorius]

Changelist for 2.05c:

• Pools switched between Bosporan Tyrranos and Oligarchy governments.
• Tidy up of hidden_resource requirements for numerous factional governments.
• Reviewed and amended the early assistance money script. Also reworked withdrawal of assistance. Essentially most factions have been equalised.
• Cap on diplomats should actually work now.

That might seem a short list, but ignoring the housekeeping, the big thing is the third one - the change to the money script. I'm keen to see if that fixes the inadvertent issue introduced in 2.04g onwards. Also whether it reduces the Gray Death.

I'd also like some feedback on Rebel recruitment and how the AI is treating mercenaries (on Hard campaign difficulty).

[myarta]

Does the hidden_resource requirement tidyup change much in the factions and colonies govt thread, particularly making some govt types available in regions they weren't before, etc?

[Ingvarr1]

I checked the Bosporan governments, as I intend to play them today, and bospolig and bosptyra have the following building requirements:

and hidden_resource caucasus or hidden_resource anatolian or hidden_resource hyparchia or hidden_resource thrakia or hidden_resource mixed or hidden_resource pontic

This means these governments can't be built in other regions (not specified above) like in dacia or somewhere else player may spread his future Bosporan empire. What's worse though, higher governments bospparadyn and bosproysat can only be built after bospolig or bosptyra are built, which in fact means that Bosporan kingdom can only build that one precursory government in those other regions, including Dacia. This surely can't be intended.

[QuintusSertorius]

I checked the Bosporan governments, as I intend to play them today, and bospolig and bosptyra have the following building requirements:



This means these governments can't be built in other regions (not specified above) like in dacia or somewhere else player may spread his future Bosporan empire. What's worse though, higher governments bospparadyn and bosproysat can only be built after bospolig or bosptyra are built, which in fact means that Bosporan kingdom can only build that one precursory government in those other regions, including Dacia. This surely can't be intended.

There's a reason they don't have recruitment pools in those regions; because it was never intended that the higher governments could be built there. You'll note before if you did put a Tyrranos/Oligarchy in them, they gave no units. The Bosporans have an advantage over other Hellenistic factions in their expansion options into the steppe. They can also expand all along the Black Sea and into Anatolia/Caucasus. It's also the same for all the other Hellenistic factions - their "local administration" equivalent can only be built in particular places.

That said, I'll check whether that's narrower than intended from the discussion we had.

[Ingvarr1]

There's a reason they don't have recruitment pools in those regions; because it was never intended that the higher governments could be built there. You'll note before if you did put a Tyrranos/Oligarchy in them, they gave no units. The Bosporans have an advantage over other Hellenistic factions in their expansion options into the steppe. They can also expand all along the Black Sea and into Anatolia/Caucasus. It's also the same for all the other Hellenistic factions - their "local administration" equivalent can only be built in particular places.

That said, I'll check whether that's narrower than intended from the discussion we had.

It's not just about higher governments, now they can't build there any own government accept the most basic bosporprec. This bit is different from other hellenistic factions. They can't build any own government in Greece & Makedonia (conquering a metropolis in motherland for the colonists doesn't seem so lucrative now). And I don't mind that Tyrannos/Oligarchy governments in those places give no units, as at least they would allow building mid to high level buildings.

Even if you leave it as it is now, there are some corrections needed. Bosporans can't build or recruit in Histria (hidden_resource dacia), while they can do it in Singidunon for example (hidden_resource thrakia).


EDIT: And yes, why "force" player to expand in certain directions. Bosporans in Anatolia are as historical as Bosporans in Makedonia, aren't they?

[FL Cool J]

Just a quick one, Apollodoros of Pergamon (coming of age) appears to have no ethnicity.

He is no Attalides in 2.05c either.

[QuintusSertorius]

It's not just about higher governments, now they can't build there any own government accept the most basic bosporprec. This bit is different from other hellenistic factions. They can't build any own government in Greece & Makedonia (conquering a metropolis in motherland for the colonists doesn't seem so lucrative now). And I don't mind that Tyrannos/Oligarchy governments in those places give no units, as at least they would allow building mid to high level buildings.

Even if you leave it as it is now, there are some corrections needed. Bosporans can't build or recruit in Histria (hidden_resource dacia), while they can do it in Singidunon for example (hidden_resource thrakia).

The Bosporans have a slightly different structure to other Hellenistic factions (like Pontos, they vary); I may have been in error labelling both Tyrannos and Oligarchy as local administration governments. The Oligarchy certainly is, but the Tyrannos may not be. Especially given it's gateway role to the others.

Also, I did indeed miss Histria; in the autumn release it's much simpler because of the presence of the hidden_resource skythian, which covers Histria, Olbia, Sythiapolis, Chersonesos and Pantikapaion and has Skythian units coming out of that region. I've tried to avoid replicating it here, and have another solution to it.

Upshot: I'll have to update for 2.05d, which may include a planned change to the availability of the Pontic Hypobasileia in the process. The Oligarchy will remain restricted in where you can build it, though.

EDIT: And yes, why "force" player to expand in certain directions. Bosporans in Anatolia are as historical as Bosporans in Makedonia, aren't they?

Simple; because while the goal is simulation of the way things were (within the constraints of the engine) in 272BC, it isn't total freedom to expand wherever you like with the same availability of units regardless of the mismatch in culture. The mechanic by which you expand outside of regions envisaged is Hellenistic colonisation, which only works in certain pre-prepared places. Even then, Hellenistic factions are still focused on particular areas that are closest to them culturally.

He is no Attalides in 2.05c either.

No traits were updated between 2.05b and 2.05c. Looking into that now.

[gosam]

I just managed to replenish a unit of Komatai Epilektoi (recruited as mercs) in Athens as the KH.
I obviously don't see the unit as recruitable in the city.

[AdAstraPuA]

2.05c H/M

Grey Blob is back. And they just keep expanding.

​

Corruption and other eats up a lot of resources. Is that wages you pay for the characters or something else? If someone can clarify.

[QuintusSertorius]

I just managed to replenish a unit of Komatai Epilektoi (recruited as mercs) in Athens as the KH.
I obviously don't see the unit as recruitable in the city.

Were they available in the mercenary pool in the region? Because you can retrain mercenaries that way. That will, of course, deplete them from the merc pool.

2.05c H/M

Grey Blob is back. And they just keep expanding.

​

Whaaaaaaa? They're getting less money than they were. That can only make sense if they're now drinking even deeper of the debt relief, but that's just something that pushes them back slightly positive, it's not big sums.

Though in fairness they're following your lead, the way you've blitzed about the place. How many governors do you have?

Corruption and other eats up a lot of resources. Is that wages you pay for the characters or something else? If someone can clarify.

Corruption is an inevitability when you have a geographically-dispersed empire.

Wages is what you pay FMs, Captains, Admirals and agents. All the people who's costs are defined in descr_character.

[gosam]

[QUOTE=QuintusSertorius;14737656]Were they available in the mercenary pool in the region? Because you can retrain mercenaries that way. That will, of course, deplete them from the merc pool.

I don't see them as available. Maybe they're fractionally there? I did notice you can retrain regular units that are not too depleted even when you can't recruit a complete unit.
That said, I also have two other merc units in Athens (Hoplitai and Gargokladioi) that I can't replenish, even if they are available in the merc pool. I kept the save game if you need it to investigate.

On another note, I've had my (starting) faction leader cumulate multiple Archon titles, that were already "claimed" by other FMs.

[QuintusSertorius]

I don't see them as available. Maybe they're fractionally there? I did notice you can retrain regular units that are not too depleted even when you can't recruit a complete unit.
That said, I also have two other merc units in Athens (Hoplitai and Gargokladioi) that I can't replenish, even if they are available in the merc pool. I kept the save game if you need it to investigate.

On another note, I've had my (starting) faction leader cumulate multiple Archon titles, that were already "claimed" by other FMs.

I can't do anything with a saved game; my build changes multiple times on a daily basis so I wouldn't be able to open it anyway. It's a weird thing that happens with retraining sometimes, I think we just leave it at that.

Traits haven't been completely reviewed for these sorts of things. We've been derailed slightly on the trawl that was planned ahead of the autumn release (geopolitical events in some team member's locations), so this task may not be completed.

[myarta]

2.05c H/M

Grey Blob is back. And they just keep expanding.

​

Corruption and other eats up a lot of resources. Is that wages you pay for the characters or something else? If someone can clarify.

"And other" includes Devastation penalties, I believe. Check the settlement details of each settlement individually to see if any have a lot of devestation (200+). If so, look for rebels or enemies in the area that are causing it (you'll see the tiles turn greyish) and clear them out. It takes a lot of turns for it to recover, so don't leave them alone in your stuff all the time.

Next, LAW LAW LAW LAW. That will solve your corruption problem if it is indeed just regular corruption that makes the most of it. Use the "Temple of Governors" chain not the other temples, build Strategic Fortifications, etc.

[QuintusSertorius]

The Bosporan government buildings have been finalised now, after discussion with the lead historian on the faction. The Tyrannos only has a requirement of 25% Hellenistic polities, but only gives levies. The Oligarchy requires 35% HP and is more restricted in where it can be built (but that includes greek1 and greek2), but gives a wider range of locals. The Paradynastes requires at least a Minor Hellenistic Poleis. And the Royal Satrapy requires a Metropolis.

Next, LAW LAW LAW LAW. That will solve your corruption problem if it is indeed just regular corruption that makes the most of it. Use the "Temple of Governors" chain not the other temples, build Strategic Fortifications, etc.

This is a direct consequence of expanding too rapidly and paying too little attention to infrastructure.

[2Saz]

Hello, I'm a bit ashamed because I've been playing EB for a long time now and it's only my first post. I'll just give a quick and not technical feedback, hoping something can be useful.

2.05c - M/M (I was so excited to start a new campaign that I forgot to check the difficulty)- Hayasdan

General impressions
Usually, I play Epeiros but due to the difficulty to build a viable campaign without blitzing all Hellas (and almost destroying Makedonia in one turn) and the impossible Epeirote diplomacy, I decided to try something else. I must say that I was really amazed by the colorful Eastern units. Playing as Hayasdan, I decided to be a good boy and to pay the annual 3000mnai. I was surprised to see that despite these expenditures, I could still manage to have a strong economy. I've been playing this campaign for about 90 turn now and only encounter a CTD once.

Faction progression and CAI
I'm sorry, I couldn't reveal the whole map so it's just the information I could get through diplomacy. This is the situation around 255BC. Yeah, I know I'm really slow but it's more historical and that's how I like to play.

On my side of the world I didn't notice anything really weird. The Seleucids didn't roll on everybody and are actually engaged in a fair fight with the Ptolemies. The AI still need several attempts to conquer a Rebel settlement (they have the bad habit to attack with clearly inferior forces) but if you play slowly like me, you can see this kind of miracles like Pontos with Trabzon. It's enjoyable to see factions expanding logically (Pontos and KB around the Black see, Pergamon in Ionia...) and settlements changing hands (Sardis went to the Ptolemies before falling to Pergamon).

Diplomacy
I think is has already been said but I'm a bit disappointed by how much and how easily alliances are made.

Because of this, few wars are actually going on and the game may look a bit static. I understand that minor factions can feel the urge to ally with major powers but come on ! However, I managed to make useful and lasting alliances which is really enjoyable (in comparison with my Epeirote experience). Moreover, the quality of relations (reasonable, so-so, good...) evolve quite logically in my opinion.

Agents
Not much to say about them. Their cap is fair in my opinion and I didn't notice any spam. The efficiency of assassins is fine. On the contrary, I think that spies could be up a little because even the more experienced have actually low success rate which make them hard to use for offensive purpose.

BAI
To be honest, I didn't fight a lot of battles in this campaign but I find that the AI is less static than it used to be. The problem of cavalry directly charging from front is still there. It can be deadly (and beautiful) when it's cataphracts (cf. screenshots) but way more stupid for lighter cavalry.

With the sound of the gallop it's terrifying.



Against all odds, I miraculously managed to win this fight.

But this is still more entertaining than chasing isolated units all over the map. At least, there is something like a front line which is, for me, the most important.

Conclusion
It was supposed to be "quick" but I couldn't refrain myself. I'm also sorry for the mistakes that I left despite spending more than one hour on the post. I'm French by the way. But most importantly, I thank all the team for its incredible work !

[Doulkus Pontikus]

Nice feedback 2Saz.
In my Pontic campaign I encountered the same situation with diplomacy. I believe the EBTeam is aware of that and working towards a solution.
IMO spies are OK, it's the assasin spam problem that should be addressed.
Welcome to the forum!

[QuintusSertorius]

Assassin spam should already be addressed - every AI faction is limited to 4.

[Ribtickler]

On the assassin spam, I was attacked by multiple assassins from different factions each turn of which I was not at war with(2.05c).

edit, they might be limited to 4 but are working in tag teams.