Negative happiness

[Kickaha]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but it seems that negative happiness modifiers given by some government buildings are making temples that give happiness bonuses useless. Playing as Carthage I noticed on the settlement details screen that building a level-one Temple of Battle in Mastia would give no happiness bonus to order when it completed, even though the description says happiness +5%. The second level temple does nothing either, though a level-one Temple of Governors does give a +5% bonus to order from law.


On checking I found that the Allied Colony and Medium Settlers are giving -5% and -10% maluses to happiness, meaning that the positive bonus from happiness temples is being swallowed up by the government's negative bonus. It seems that – without any other sources of happiness – I'd have to get to a level 4 temple before seeing any return.


Given that the law bonus from governors' temples already reduces corruption, and that a lot of government building give negative happiness while only a few things (highest-level farms) give negative law, it seems that there's no reason to ever build anything other than governors' temples. Eventually you'll reach the higher-level governments which give no happiness penalty, but that just means you'll get the same order bonus as you could have had all along from a law temple.


Otherwise, congratulations on an outstanding mod.

[Mantaprey]

Carthage is the trickiest faction for happiness, you can't have too many settler colonies. Their strengths are the trade colonies(happiness and money bonus) and mercenary recruitment. Because the lower faction governments give minor unhappiness, I found that the allied government is a better deal in the short term, giving you happiness and recruitment.

The idea here is that its easier to play Carthage with money(trade colonies) and mercenaries, instead of settlers and citizen soldiers. So that it will make you feel like the real Carthage. However it does feels weird to have a large settler colony on a 100% Western Mediterranean province giving -15% happiness. If it were a Hellenic faction equivalent you would have 15% happiness on top of high level government, their system is more rewarding for colonization.


As for the temples, this is actually a bug that i will investigate further. Thanks for spotting it. So far Mastia and Gadir don't gain happiness from temples, I'm going to see if its all of Iberia or just these 2 starting cities. The Temple of Law is always the best one to build for the city so far, i believe when more ancillaries and traits are put in, each temple will have a noticeable effect on certain characters.

[Kickaha]

Thanks, Mantaprey. Looking at the EDB, I think I can see what's happening. Gader, Mastia, Atiqa, Adrumeto, and Lilibeo all have the same government setup: Allied Colony and Medium Settlers' Colony. The Allied Colony gives -5% happiness, but the Settlers' Colony gives -10% happiness only if the Western Polities culture is at less than 40%, which is the case in the Iberian cities but not the others. Also, Lilibeo has the Agrigento Temples wonder which gives +5% happiness.



So, the total happiness from buildings is: Gader -15%, Mastia -15%, Atiqa and Adrumeto -5%, and Lilibeo 0%. The first three levels of happiness temples will therefore have no effect on order in Iberia until the Western Polities culture reaches 40%, and the first level has no effect in Atiqa and Adrumeto.



I appreciate your point about the Governors' Temple being the best for Iberia, but it would be a pity if four out of five temple building lines are obviously less favourable choices as I like to build a variety of temples in different cities. Of course, traits and ancillaries will, as you say, also affect their value.

[Mantaprey]

Oh i get it now the temples are catching up to the negative happiness in Gader and Mastia. Its good to know that the 40% WM can override the Settlers Colony negative happiness, it does not say that in the description. This means that it will take 160 turns at 1% conversion, to go from 0% to 40%. So for Gader and Mastia it will take 40 and 20 turns, that's not so bad now.