Fans suggestion thread for future releases

[myarta]

They would indeed be pretty cool. No idea when we'd find the time to do it, but it's possible someone might take an interest. I've got my own little submod, who knows how that might evolve over time.

Full current pixel count of the map, but zoomed in just Sicily

[Milan y Astray]

I'm playin' with the new version and great work, like alwais .
Have you ever thought about doing a scenario of the peloponnesian war exploiting the engine of eb2?

[Sarkiss]

i like the potential of the new raiding option but there are some aspects around it that can perhaps improve the feature further:

1. would it be possible to raid neutral factions at all? historically raiding peoples werent as tactful as to leave 'neutrals' well alone and in fact thats how many wars may start. enabling neutrals' raiding will allow for some dirty play and provocations.

2. can raiding be tied to an end of turn pop up notification? having to check your financial balance before and after the raid (and with no obvous line for these figures in financial report) is a tedious task. a notification of an approximate value looted would be great imho. besides, having a pop up will also serve as a reminder of the fact that some of the FMs are still out there raiding and this is especially useful because of the very high rate of FMs and even FHs rebelling whilst on a raid.

3. to alleviate the rebelling issue mentioned above, significantly increase loyalty of important historical characters (guys with bios) who have no history of being rebellious. as it stands, high rates of rebellions among virtually any characters severely unbdermines value of raiding as a feature imho.

[QuintusSertorius]

1. The entirety of the mechanic is hardcoded, we can't alter it at all. We have a single condition - GeneralDevastatesTile - that we can latch onto. We can't influence how it works.

2. There's a popup the first time you do it, anything more would just get annoying. There is nothing we can do about the lack of feedback, besides your treasury number going up, again the mechanics of the financial scroll are hardcoded.

3. That's a different topic entirely.

[Sarkiss]

2. There's a popup the first time you do it, anything more would just get annoying.

why, isnt it essentially from the same category as "path blocked" that helps to manage agents and armies? its very similar to any other end turn messages imo. once you get a few extra FMs/armies it is always useful to have more tools for managing situation. one can also simply dismiss the message. i think people would rather have a reminder then discover that a forgotten FM gone rebel.

3. That's a different topic entirely.

when a raiding feature is based entirely on the fact that FM is present, there is an ovbvious strong linkage between the two topics.

[Marius The Great]

Sorry if I am bombarding you guys lately.

Are the number of settlements and number of factions maxed out?

Is it possible to make it so that a faction is only destroyed once both destruction requirements are met, rather than either?

Is there any interest (if it's even possible) in a trait that increases the odds of troops defecting/changing sides/becoming Elutheroi if you can't afford to pay any military upkeep (faction wide)? This could be mitigated by other traits.

Love 2.3 btw.

[QuintusSertorius]

Settlements are maxed, we can't add any more. Factions are not, we still have two slots to go.

Can't control the mechanics of how a faction id destroyed.

Revolt is done on a per-stack basis, there's no meaningful means to use traits, unless you mean FMs. That's already handled through the Loyalty stats. Even if we added something with Loyalty penalties based on our Treasury total, it could only be for the player. The AI is terrible at managing its money.

[Hummer]

My FM's all seem to die naturally around the age of 72, 73. Is there a possibility of making it a little more variable so they die naturally from age 60 to 75?

Is there a possibility of having a trait that adds up all the effects of the traits together. I don't want to take away from immersion but when I am looking through various FM's for a good governor, it is very tedious looking up and down each single trait and adding up the positives and negatives for unrest, law and famine.

[Genghis Skahn]

Is there a possibility of having a trait that adds up all the effects of the traits together. I don't want to take away from immersion but when I am looking through various FM's for a good governor, it is very tedious looking up and down each single trait and adding up the positives and negatives for unrest, law and famine.

What are you, a sadist?! Only a masochist would go through such an intense and relatively fruitless labor like that. In other words, it'd be a Sisyphean trial, especially when we're undermanned in the traits dept.

Still possible, but you may as well re-write the whole EDCT if you're gonna do that--that's the kind of effort we're talking about here.

[Hummer]

My bad. I don't know anything about coding. I had no idea it was such a large task.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Is there a possibility of having a trait that adds up all the effects of the traits together. I don't want to take away from immersion but when I am looking through various FM's for a good governor, it is very tedious looking up and down each single trait and adding up the positives and negatives for unrest, law and famine.

I always play with a second computer running MS Excel to follow what's going on with my FMs. Some features are more relevant so I track only some of them.
I agree that's tedious and there'd be some benefit of having one-number-for-a-feature but I also admit with Genghis that it's an enormous labor requiring hundreds of hours of coding and prone to many mistakes on the way. Perhaps not worth an effort.
To some extent the call for having "one number for a feature" has been realized for Morale for troops on the battlefield, but the problem is (or was - I haven't checked if it was fixed in the 2.3) that an FM attribute shows occasionally something different from what's "in reality" in the game - as I described here.

[Genghis Skahn]

I always play with a second computer running MS Excel to follow what's going on with my FMs. Some features are more relevant so I track only some of them.
I agree that's tedious and there'd be some benefit of having one-number-for-a-feature but I also admit with Genghis that it's an enormous labor requiring hundreds of hours of coding and prone to many mistakes on the way. Perhaps not worth an effort.
To some extent the call for having "one number for a feature" has been realized for Morale for troops on the battlefield, but the problem is (or was - I haven't checked if it was fixed in the 2.3) that an FM attribute shows occasionally something different from what's "in reality" in the game - as I described here.

Since you've now raised the issue 3 times, I'll finally answer(since I couldn't be bothered to beforehand--because I'm largely not going to implement your suggestion):

1. Chivalry/Confidence has hardcoded effects besides morale in battle, whilst TroopMorale theoretically only affects battles. There is no chance in hell we are doing a full-on replacement for TroopMorale with Chivalry, not unless we find out TroopMorale doesn't work. It'd be totally unbalanced and uncalled for, and I don't particularly care if it's confusing for the player. I would prefer a more functional system that is also more confusing to a player than a less functional one which is less confusing to a player. I really am not particularly sympathetic to the "troublesome" aspect of "having to count all your TroopMorale bonuses and Confidence levels together". There are many instances where I want to give a Morale effect, but not give all the bonuses that come with Chivalry, so we are going to continue to use both effects in EBII.

2. As you mentioned negative chivalry can lead to dread--and since we don't use Dread in EBII whatsoever(it's overpowered), adding negative chivalry points is VERY tricky. Adding negative TroopMorale points however, presents none of these problems, and can be quite liberally given out to reduce morale on the field for bad commanders. This is one of the biggest reasons why TroopMorale and Confidence are both used, and not just one or the other--once again, I am not sympathetic to the "disconnect" between these two effects, because handing out negative chivalry is so problematic for us AND chivalry has hardcoded effects outside of battle that we oft do NOT want to be added to said character. Once again, there is simply no way in hell that Confidence will wholesale replace TroopMorale; not only would it be a reasonable amount of work, it also would be extremely problematic for the reasons discussed above...

3. Actually, since I've started working on traits, Confidence is oft listed as Confidence in the effects descriptions I've worked on and not as "+1 Morale for all Troops on the Battlefield", but there are definitely still areas where it isn't listed as Confidence. As well, due to laziness, I've often simply wrote +X TroopMorale rather than "+X Morale for..." in the effects descriptions. Anyhow there's still quite a few areas where Confidence is listed purely as morale in the VNVS, but it's very tedious to go through the whole EDCT and VNVS to fix all of these. As I constantly mention, we are understaffed in the traits dept., and I prefer to actually add traits than to apply cosmetic fixes like this "problem". There are SO many factions with virtually 0 factional traits, and cosmetic fixes regarding "not being able to properly count your morale" are extremely low priority for me.

4. The Carthage Disgrace trait has already been reduced to -1/-2 Chivalry instead of -5/-10, and I've just did more fixing with those traits(the last level gave -10 authority, which will actually give a character a positive 10 authority in game).

My bad. I don't know anything about coding. I had no idea it was such a large task.

No problem, but like I keep saying, I already have enough on my plate as it is. You'll just have to count your chickens the old fashioned way .

[myarta]

Yeah, some mods (Was it Byg's? I forget where I saw it) have an informational trait that tells you the net squalor effect of your leader across all their traits, and I agree that a Rome II-style "hover here to see the net effect of this general's traits" option would be great, but it would be an insane amount of work, not only to get going, but to keep accurate as the effects of other traits are changed in ways that might throw the count off.

I just keep a spreadsheet on my second monitor (borderless window so no time wasted when I move the curser over) for keeping track of leaders. It's annoying but it's an engine limitation, and the trait-based summary would be way too much.

[BHL 20]

Genghis Skahn - thanks for the explanation. It wasn't clear to me why Jurand's ideas were not worth implementing, and I'm sure I wasn't the only one.

[Jurand of Cracow]

First of all, I’d like to say that to my mind the EBII has the second-most developed trait system (EDCT) in all M2TW mods – just after the TATW. I appreciate it a lot, and it’s all thanks to hard work, time and knowledge of the moders.

Since you've now raised the issue 3 times, I'll finally answer(since I couldn't be bothered to beforehand--because I'm largely not going to implement your suggestion):

To excuse myself: I’ve raised the issue 3 times over the last half of the year because I thought to have spotted an error in coding (or the txt descriptions), I didn't consider it as a suggestion; and because I was rather ignored despite providing quite a detailed analysis of what happens in the code. I haven’t been trolling, I just wanted to draw attention to a mistake that I had thought was an oversight.

I’d just like to comment on the following sentence:

“You'll just have to count your chickens the old fashioned way”

The problem it’s not possible to count the chickens unless you get to analyzing the EDCT. The in-game description tells “"+X Morale”, but it may be either “+Confidence” (which may not show immediately) or simply “+Morale”. You cannot tell which is which. However, the difference shouldn’t be big. For instance, if I count my chickens (counting the in-game “+Morale” descriptions) and I get “7”, and I have Confidence 3, I still don’t know how much of a morale boost would my troops get. This might be 7 – 3 = 4 (all Confidence was fueled by “+Morale” part), or 7 – 5 = 2 (not all Confidence-related-+Morale showed up in Confidence yet), or maybe 7 +3 = 10 (if the +3 Confidence comes from another source (if it’s possible to get it from another source - I haven't checked it thouroghly and you've said you've fixed the Carthage issue)). Does this ignorance matter? If your cavalry has 5 morale, then it's a difference between 7 and 15, not negligible while deciding where to send them (plus the "normal" morale is much better than the Confidence - it works on the whole battlefield). However, it's not game-breaking, just adds some uncertainty, perhaps good for the gameplay. I’ll definitely play the EBII nevertheless.

[Genghis Skahn]

1. Oh please don't misunderstand, I didn't think you were trolling. Overall most of your suggestions/contributions to this fora have been good.

2. For now all new entries using chivalry will be listed as confidence, as they should be. I'll get around to fixing the chivalry/confidence issue eventually, but like I said, it's sort of low priority atm.

[isa0005]

Won't lie, not realy a fan of the pastal colours on the new Hastati in 2.3 they just don't feel right amidst my other units... but hey each to their own

[Kull]

Is there a possibility of having a trait that adds up all the effects of the traits together. I don't want to take away from immersion but when I am looking through various FM's for a good governor, it is very tedious looking up and down each single trait and adding up the positives and negatives for unrest, law and famine.

A quick and dirty method is to just cycle each FM in and out of a city (as temporary governor) and count the amount of increase/decrease in public order. That should tell you pretty quickly which guy currently has the best "order-related" traits. Of course traits change over time, so it's quite likely that your +25% guy today will see changes during his lifetime. But if you need to know RIGHT NOW which guy is best, that will do it. Still a bit time consuming if you have a large family, but much faster than counting individual traits on every FM.

[Dargaron]

Regarding Allied governments, I wonder if it would be worth it to adjust the system to a three-tiered system.

As it is, there isn't really a good reason not to upgrade to a Closely-Allied Oligarchy/Democracy. The second form is strictly better than the initial installment.

How about the following:
-Keep the precursor levels intact, followed by the standard Allied Oligarchy/Democracy.
-After the initial Allied gov, there are two parallel paths: Closely Allied Oligarchy/Democracy, which has a decreased public order bonus compared to the initial government in exchange for increased recruitment and decreased Cultural Conversion, and "Trusted Allied Oligarchy/Democracy," which has a very highly increased public order bonus, coupled with an increased cultural conversion rate.

[myarta]

Cultural conversion to....your own culture? Allied Goverments convert to "Independent" culture, i.e. the heretic icon from vanilla. Your own culture conversion comes from ownership bonus, the influence of the client ruler, and any buildings your faction might be capable of constructing in an allied gov't that provide conversion (usually not many).