Fans suggestion thread for future releases

[Pooploop]

I think I mentioned this before, but will the EB2 team ever consider to take advantage of the armor upgrade mechanic of MTW2? NOT, and I repeat, NOT for the sake of actual bonuses to defense or performance for the units BUT for the sake of actually changing the LOOK or "skins" of a singular unit within the game? For example - I'd like to focus on the Romani horse bodyguard. As of the time I'm writing, and as I'm aware of - the Consular bg look like Camillan horsemen: tiny breastplates, short spears, and shields of the old hoplite variety. When one gets to the Polybian era (and the Polybian event) the Romani have a better equites class more suited to shock rather than skirmish: equipped with mail, Boeotian-style plumed helms, longer spears, and a more encompassing theuros shield. However, because MTW2's engine cannot switch the bodyguard unit of a faction mid-game, the consular warriors still LOOK like the now "old-style" Camillan horsemen. How can this problem of inconsistency be remedied? Well, with the armor upgrade, one can apply it to that bg unit and CHANGE the look to a Polybian heavy horseman while still in essence the same bg unit! This can be further applied to the late game, when the Romani have developed a new Marian-style heavy skirmisher cavalry, and once again the bg unit looks old-fashioned. As armor upgrades have several levels, you can apply it again and make your bg unit match the military fashion of the period! Another example would be the Saka and Sarmatian bg's. As of the start of the campaign they look like the best each faction has to offer, but in later decades when cavalry barding (meaning the cataphract fad) starts to become more popular, as well as heavier armor for the rider, won't those bg's look archaic compared to those cataphract units? WELL, with the armor upgrade applied one can give new SKINS to those bg's to make them LOOK like cataphracts but are still the same bg unit. The whole gist of the armor upgrade is to CHANGE the LOOK of units mid-game.

To add to that however, one can also use this armor upgrades to have a SINGULAR unit LOOK relevant throughout the whole EB2 time period, therefore freeing up more slots for more units. An example would be the Romani trio: principes, hastati, and triari. Instead of making separate units to represent those three in both the Camillan and Polybian periods you will only need one set for all time! Let's look at the principes in the Camillan period with his non-gladius blade and tiny breastplate. Now with an armor upgrade (and weapon upgrade) applied which the team may only allow after the scripted Polybian event, that SAME principes unit will now have mail and a gladius blade; thus LOOKING like a polybian-era warrior! Also armor and weapon upgrades add to stats, so that principes unit not only looks Polybian, he fights Polybian as well, better and stronger.

Moving on from the armor upgrade question, may I suggest that the team make it more noticeable in real-time battles the differing stamina and speed of varying units? A good example will be between, let's say Spartan hoplites and regular Hoplites. Is it possible to give the spartans a little burst of speed to indicate their better training and such? Or more noticeably between naked gaulish warriors and roman legionnaires? If both units were to run at full speed from point A to point B...c'mon man unless a lack of underwear hampers one's running ability, the lighter naked men should outrun the encased in mail ones. To balance them however, you can give the romans more stamina. However, the most noticeable differences in speed should be seen in the cavalry units, a good example being the Numidian skirmishers and, let's say Polybian Equites. The Numidians should have an edge (not like twice, but a noticeable reasonable edge) in speed, with their lack of armor and speedier Berber horse breeds. The attack and defense stats provided by the eb2 team are very fair but in some cases make units indistinguishable performance-wise. Let's mix it up a bit by showcasing the eliteness or peasantness of the units by NOTICEABLE different running speeds and stamina.

[QuintusSertorius]

I think I mentioned this before, but will the EB2 team ever consider to take advantage of the armor upgrade mechanic of MTW2? NOT, and I repeat, NOT for the sake of actual bonuses to defense or performance for the units BUT for the sake of actually changing the LOOK or "skins" of a singular unit within the game? For example - I'd like to focus on the Romani horse bodyguard. As of the time I'm writing, and as I'm aware of - the Consular bg look like Camillan horsemen: tiny breastplates, short spears, and shields of the old hoplite variety. When one gets to the Polybian era (and the Polybian event) the Romani have a better equites class more suited to shock rather than skirmish: equipped with mail, Boeotian-style plumed helms, longer spears, and a more encompassing theuros shield. However, because MTW2's engine cannot switch the bodyguard unit of a faction mid-game, the consular warriors still LOOK like the now "old-style" Camillan horsemen. How can this problem of inconsistency be remedied? Well, with the armor upgrade, one can apply it to that bg unit and CHANGE the look to a Polybian heavy horseman while still in essence the same bg unit! This can be further applied to the late game, when the Romani have developed a new Marian-style heavy skirmisher cavalry, and once again the bg unit looks old-fashioned. As armor upgrades have several levels, you can apply it again and make your bg unit match the military fashion of the period! Another example would be the Saka and Sarmatian bg's. As of the start of the campaign they look like the best each faction has to offer, but in later decades when cavalry barding (meaning the cataphract fad) starts to become more popular, as well as heavier armor for the rider, won't those bg's look archaic compared to those cataphract units? WELL, with the armor upgrade applied one can give new SKINS to those bg's to make them LOOK like cataphracts but are still the same bg unit. The whole gist of the armor upgrade is to CHANGE the LOOK of units mid-game.

To add to that however, one can also use this armor upgrades to have a SINGULAR unit LOOK relevant throughout the whole EB2 time period, therefore freeing up more slots for more units. An example would be the Romani trio: principes, hastati, and triari. Instead of making separate units to represent those three in both the Camillan and Polybian periods you will only need one set for all time! Let's look at the principes in the Camillan period with his non-gladius blade and tiny breastplate. Now with an armor upgrade (and weapon upgrade) applied which the team may only allow after the scripted Polybian event, that SAME principes unit will now have mail and a gladius blade; thus LOOKING like a polybian-era warrior! Also armor and weapon upgrades add to stats, so that principes unit not only looks Polybian, he fights Polybian as well, better and stronger.

It's not possible to have armour upgrades without stat changes, that's hardcoded. Which is why you can't have armour upgrades to represent the changes in Roman units. They have different armour and shield stats, which can't be represented by the fixed +3/+5 of an armour upgrade.

The Roman bodyguards are placeholders in any case, they'll be replaced by the Equites Extraordinarii (which likely won't be a recruitable unit) in time.

Moving on from the armor upgrade question, may I suggest that the team make it more noticeable in real-time battles the differing stamina and speed of varying units? A good example will be between, let's say Spartan hoplites and regular Hoplites. Is it possible to give the spartans a little burst of speed to indicate their better training and such? Or more noticeably between naked gaulish warriors and roman legionnaires? If both units were to run at full speed from point A to point B...c'mon man unless a lack of underwear hampers one's running ability, the lighter naked men should outrun the encased in mail ones. To balance them however, you can give the romans more stamina. However, the most noticeable differences in speed should be seen in the cavalry units, a good example being the Numidian skirmishers and, let's say Polybian Equites. The Numidians should have an edge (not like twice, but a noticeable reasonable edge) in speed, with their lack of armor and speedier Berber horse breeds. The attack and defense stats provided by the eb2 team are very fair but in some cases make units indistinguishable performance-wise. Let's mix it up a bit by showcasing the eliteness or peasantness of the units by NOTICEABLE different running speeds and stamina.

Elites and light units have a higher speed already. It's not possible to give a "burst of speed" to one unit and not another, because there's no such lever to affect. Whether or not it's "noticeable" is irrelevant, they have different stats.

Are you playing 2.2g?

[wermez]

Bodyguards can have only one skin. Many units have more than one skin, for example, gallic swordsmen, lybian skirmishers, lybian swordsmen, kurepos, etc.

[moisesjns]

I have a reccomendation. Why not allow pontos to have siege units like lithbolos? I understand Sinope is not a vast wealth of knowledge like athens, or the mainland hellas to have a huge number of engineers. But why cant we role play or allow them to be recruited by pontos as if they are engineers that pontos has hired to work for them.

[QuintusSertorius]

I have a reccomendation. Why not allow pontos to have siege units like lithbolos? I understand Sinope is not a vast wealth of knowledge like athens, or the mainland hellas to have a huge number of engineers. But why cant we role play or allow them to be recruited by pontos as if they are engineers that pontos has hired to work for them.

Pontos can recruit siege units; with either a helcol_three or Basilike Patris government.

[kingofportugal]

Why are all Helenistic factions the same? And all their phalanx and hoplites have the exact same stats and characteristics the only change is clothes? This makes the seleucid faction the best faction to play and gives no reason to play as macedonians or others because Seleucids have everything plus elephants plus big empire (that is in crisis yes but easy to manage) etc...

Why not making the macedonian phalanx 1 point stronger in defense. And the greek hoplites stronger 1 in defense? Or the lusotannan elite infantry the best at throwing javelins. I see no point in cloning all hoplites except for clothing.

Dont take my suggestions too serious. There is probably a reason you did this this way...

1. Make one unit in every faction much more powerful and more expensive than others.

Lets say Im playing as the Lusotannan. There is no reason for me to recruit the elite unit and keep paying its upkeep if its stats dont compensate. I rather just recruit the cheap ones and send them to battle. Having elite units stronger is what distinguishes one faction from the other. If you play as spartans you want the spartan hoplites to be stronger than any other hoplite and of course more expensive and also but not so much - upkeep, so you have a major incentive to recruit them and use them wisely, and keep retraining them. So it is particularly important to have elite units with more defense, so they last longer and dont die so fast and can be used strategically in the battlefield and keep being sent back home to be retrained and promoted.

- If you have a elite unit that is not that much stronger than the other weaker cheaper units you will just want to recruit them and send them to the frontline as fast as possible and see them done so you dont have to keep paying their high upkeep.

Instead if you have an elite unit with high defense and notoriously stronger than all the others, you will clearly get an attachment to that unit and not feeling like disbanding it or sending it do die because it is a unit that it compensates improving and getting gold chevron.
The mod as it is right now you can succeed much better by recruiting all your units non elite cheaper units.

Please rethink this concept.

Thank you.

[QuintusSertorius]

No. You clearly don't understand how the M2TW engine works. The only way to give the variation you're talking about is to use up additional unit slots (there are only 500 available), which is a complete waste of slots. There's absolutely no point in having "Makedonian Hoplites" and "Epirote Hoplites" when the only difference is a point here or there along with their different skins.

The Hellenistic factions aren't all the same. Even aside from the Seleukids and Baktria having a different structure to their governments (and Pergamon will soon be different again), they have different spheres of influence. You can't take the Seleukids to Thrace and build factional governments, nor recruit locals, for example.

[Apani]

No. You clearly don't understand how the M2TW engine works. The only way to give the variation you're talking about is to use up additional unit slots (there are only 500 available), which is a complete waste of slots. There's absolutely no point in having "Makedonian Hoplites" and "Epirote Hoplites" when the only difference is a point here or there along with their different skins.

Well, actually you could represent a certain faction's hoplite being stronger by giving it a free exp, weapon or armour bonus upon recruitment.

[QuintusSertorius]

Well, actually you could represent a certain faction's hoplite being stronger by giving it a free exp, weapon or armour bonus upon recruitment.

It doesn't make any sense. There's no evidence that if a Thessalian was recruited by the Antigonids, they'd be better fighters than if they'd instead been recruited by the Roman Republic, for example.

[Apani]

It doesn't make any sense. There's no evidence that if a Thessalian was recruited by the Antigonids, they'd be better fighters than if they'd instead been recruited by the Roman Republic, for example.

The bonus can be aor-dependant rather than faction dependant. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[QuintusSertorius]

The bonus can be aor-dependant rather than faction dependant. Correct me if I'm wrong.

How are we in any position to judge that hoplites from Aitolia were better than those from Ionia?

[Rad]

I'm all for making elite units... elitier. And I'm a guy who uses mid and low tier troops for most of my fighting, as it should be.

[bordinis]

I don't want to insult anyone's work here but the biggest problem is the chosen "kill-rout"system wich most of us players of medieval mods were comfortable with the more " kill battle game play" rather than "make a move and rout them " The stat system that EB2 developers chose to implement is the reason why "elites" feel very undesirable in most cases which they do not compensate in battles " by performing enough better than the others". Wich is why some players do not feel certain units to be more exquisite in some roles. But i have to admit that the more you play the more you get used to such choice i guess. At least the missile units got better and cavalry were always good. The only thing that i still rant a bit are the chariot and elephant under powering in this game

[QuintusSertorius]

Elephants and chariots (which are the same thing, mechanically) are fundamentally broken. There's very little we can do about that without making them ahistorically and unrealistically overpowered.

[f0ndiE^]

Dont you think, that foot archers ammunition is too low? Its like they fire 10 times and they run out of it. I usually play battles in double speed but I still get the feeling that its too fast. They sure make some difference but my question is, couldnt you add like 5 - 10 more? Thanks for answer

[QuintusSertorius]

Dont you think, that foot archers ammunition is too low? Its like they fire 10 times and they run out of it. I usually play battles in double speed but I still get the feeling that its too fast. They sure make some difference but my question is, couldnt you add like 5 - 10 more? Thanks for answer

They have 25 arrows, which is actually rather a lot. How do you think they carried them? It's not as easy as you might think, especially if you don't have access to the baggage train during the battle (which is usually the case).

[f0ndiE^]

Well, they would use a high capacity quivers which can carry 80 - 120 arrows. Now one regiment with 120 men could carry many of those to place it behind them + small quivers on their back which can carry i dont know like 12 - 20 arrows? .

[Sint]

Well, they would use a high capacity quivers which can carry 80 - 120 arrows. Now one regiment with 120 men could carry many of those to place it behind them + small quivers on their back which can carry i dont know like 12 - 20 arrows? .

No... there are no high capacity quivers that can carry 80 or even 120 arrows.

[f0ndiE^]

I am talking about something like ground quivers...not the ones one their back which cant carry that much OBVIOUSLY.

[Apani]

The anatolian unit cards all look the same: the inability tell spearmen apart fron axemen and archers at first glance makes it harder to manage your army when playing as Pontos.