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Thread: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

  1. #261

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    I do this regularly and not only with EB, but with other mods, and always worked much better.

    Even that change is far from real life, as in real life rout and crumbling would start after 10-15% casualty rate even faced frontally only (not to tell charged from behind which only best hard core veterans would stand). Most of the casualties were during the rout, not during the combat.... Levies (especially skirmishes/arches/slingers who even stand in prolong malee in game..) would run even on sight of charging cavalry or seeing professional unit coming on them, even before real contact...

    I have mentioned it once but EB team was deeply against it...for some reason...
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  2. #262
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by wojtekimbier View Post
    I find it very odd to see unprofessional units fighting to the death.
    Historically, most battles would not end in complete massacres of one side or the other, as you surely know, generally the causalities would be rather low (rarely more than half of the army).
    My suggestion is to lower morale levels of soldiers.
    By making them easier to rout, it would be more important to keep your line infantry together, prevent a unit from being flanked, use a high command general for important battles, defend your missile troops from being charged at, have more light cavalry wings to chase routing enemies etc.
    I have lowered all morale values in my EDU by 2 (by 1 if a unit only had 2 to begin with) and it gives an additional depth and realism to the game in my opinion.
    What battle difficulty are you playing on?

    We had lower morale values before, and has mass routs as a consequence. Most battles were over in a handful of minutes, sometimes before there had even been contact, which was neither realistic nor fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4th Regiment View Post
    I do this regularly and not only with EB, but with other mods, and always worked much better.

    Even that change is far from real life, as in real life rout and crumbling would start after 10-15% casualty rate even faced frontally only (not to tell charged from behind which only best hard core veterans would stand). Most of the casualties were during the rout, not during the combat.... Levies (especially skirmishes/arches/slingers who even stand in prolong malee in game..) would run even on sight of charging cavalry or seeing professional unit coming on them, even before real contact...

    I have mentioned it once but EB team was deeply against it...for some reason...
    We were against it for the reason that in the engine we have, that means mass routs and battles over in a very short time. It's dull and unrealistic.

  3. #263

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    What battle difficulty are you playing on?
    We had lower morale values before, and has mass routs as a consequence. Most battles were over in a handful of minutes, sometimes before there had even been contact, which was neither realistic nor fun.
    We were against it for the reason that in the engine we have, that means mass routs and battles over in a very short time. It's dull and unrealistic.
    I used to always play on VH/VH. The new EB patch post said something about hard campaign/medium battle being recommended for some reason, so I used that in my last Armenia campaign.
    As 4th Regiment has pointed out, mass routs would be the realistic way to recreate ancient battles, although I can see why it would make the game very frustrating. Nobody wants the game to be that way.
    However, why a moderate approach, a change of just 1-2 points, would not be a step in the right direction?

    Sorry to bother you just a few weeks before the next big release.

  4. #264
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by wojtekimbier View Post
    I used to always play on VH/VH.
    And therein is why you're getting levies fighting to the death. Morale is balanced on Medium battle difficulty, not Very Hard.

  5. #265
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    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    And therein is why you're getting levies fighting to the death.
    Honestly no.Even on VH the moral bonus is no minor that the will flee after taking some casulties and a flanking attack(not even cavalry).I always play on VH and most of my Victories are mass routs.The onl thing ,in my experince,that is causing them to fight that long is a good general.
    Elder Scrolls Online :Messing up the Lore since 2007...

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  6. #266

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    We were against it for the reason that in the engine we have, that means mass routs and battles over in a very short time. It's dull and unrealistic.
    It is dull only if real life was dull...I explained above how real life battles were fought..if that was dull...than life was dull...and this mod aims for really, not Brave heart like typical Hollywood battles where they butcher each other to at least o 50% casualties...and it lasts sometime...In ancient times, even in decent professional hoplite engagement, as soon as line broke, rout will start..and casualties before rout were no more than 10% usually..

    Around real life you can than mod BAI, where keeping battle line and flank protected due to moral penalties ( in the engine, and in real life) will be much more important...Unlike now, when every unit try to flank each other and especially if there is more cavalry you have this "dance" spread across the map..or trying to position scrimishes to shoot on the side or even back of the unit (now, that is really "realistic")...etc...you know what I am saying about..Flanking, and especially double envelopment, and especially charging from the rear (very common in game, which was rare rare rare master piece exception in life) were very difficult and rare tactical decision...and for the reason..

    If you spread out your army, instead of keeping intact line and command, try to flank as usual with isolated units, and your unit got flanked...well, it should rout..With this approach and if you model BAI according to this, it will be really the best mod...Keep the line..and if you try fancy maneuvers...well..it can work...but you can also loose easily as things can go wrong very easily too
    Last edited by 4th Regiment; September 03, 2015 at 02:51 PM.
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  7. #267

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    And therein is why you're getting levies fighting to the death. Morale is balanced on Medium battle difficulty, not Very Hard.
    I do play on Medium since the last patch

  8. #268
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    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Part of the problem with mass routs is how easy it makes battles if you are on the winning side of the rout. It's very easy to round up all the routers even with only 2 units of cavalry.

  9. #269

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Hummer View Post
    Part of the problem with mass routs is how easy it makes battles if you are on the winning side of the rout. It's very easy to round up all the routers even with only 2 units of cavalry.
    Exactly, the morale of the troops are fine, but the rate at which cavalry chasing down routs is too high, you can capture thousands of enemy infantries with just your general bodyguards.
    Right now, most of my won battles (1:1 strength ratio) have 90%-100% enemy casualty rate even though I didn't bother to enclose them with maneuvers.

    Is there a way to make routs untargetable? That's the few things good about Rome2.

    If not, please slow down the capture rate especially cavalry's. And, exhausted units should be hesitate to chase down routs before they can have some rest.

  10. #270

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Here is a proposition for the team.

    Units that use javelins, lots of them really, should have charge bonus of their secondary weapon associated with their primary weapons (copied), javelins, so that player could get the correct info on charge bonus form unit's info card. This is a minor but useful change since M2TW engine doesn't allow the javelin charge anyway.

  11. #271
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Blob View Post
    Here is a proposition for the team.

    Units that use javelins, lots of them really, should have charge bonus of their secondary weapon associated with their primary weapons (copied), javelins, so that player could get the correct info on charge bonus form unit's info card. This is a minor but useful change since M2TW engine doesn't allow the javelin charge anyway.
    That's not a minor change; that would require editing every single javelin-using unit's stats, for the sake of a purely cosmetic boon.

  12. #272

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    That's not a minor change; that would require editing every single javelin-using unit's stats, for the sake of a purely cosmetic boon.
    It is a minor change, Ctrl+F and put in "thrown" in Notepad++ will get you to every javelin primary weapon, beneath it are the stats for secondary one.

    Look it as player friendly change.

  13. #273
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Blob View Post
    It is a minor change, Ctrl+F and put in "thrown" in Notepad++ will get you to every javelin primary weapon, beneath it are the stats for secondary one.

    Look it as player friendly change.
    You misunderstand me, that's a big effort for very little gain. That's 200-odd lines, each of which has to be compared to the secondary line below it for the correct number to enter. As the person who's responsible for those sorts of changes (and has to do them twice, once for the test version and once for the development build), I don't see it as very worthwhile.

    I'd rather look into how the unit cards display their information, and edit that template to display correctly.

  14. #274

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    added Kingdom Of kartli (Caucasnian Iberia) -Barbarians retention gate, Roman ally http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...(Egrisi)-units
    Last edited by Khevsur; September 04, 2015 at 06:00 PM.

  15. #275

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Sint View Post
    Honestly no.Even on VH the moral bonus is no minor that the will flee after taking some casulties and a flanking attack(not even cavalry).I always play on VH and most of my Victories are mass routs.The onl thing ,in my experince,that is causing them to fight that long is a good general.
    Same here... sometimes I even have a lower kill ratio than the AI, but end up destroying the enemy army completely via mass rout. Good AI generals with lots of morale bonuses make it more interesting. VH/VH. 2.04d

    Suggestion: Instead of the release/ransom/execute system, have captured units enslaved, giving you a certain amount of cash after the battle. Is it doable?
    Last edited by Rad; September 04, 2015 at 05:57 PM.

  16. #276

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases


  17. #277

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    Is it hard coded that a single defeat destroys a rebel stack?
    I won a tough battle against a rebel stack recently. Out of 1400ish enemy soldiers, I killed 600, captured 500 and didn't bother capturing the remaining 300, thinking they'll just vanish after the fight, like usual. You should have seen the look on my face when they retreated to the nearby rebel camp.

  18. #278

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Two suggestions

    1) For no, or minimal unrest AI having in distant provinces, even with totally different culture and with little garrison, while player due to AI bonuses, unable to control even starting distant provinces (Catago Iberian possessions for example)

    Why do not go with simple solution - having destructible "building" with certain unrest points in every province. Player can destroy it and fix the thing, while AI can/will not, which will lead to certain increase in unrest for AI, which will be noticeable in newly conquered or distant provinces even for AI.

    Further improvement of this simple idea (since I do not know if it can be done) - having that "building" to have a) increased unrest as function of distance to capital, b) or/end function of already present unrest (increasing it further, which will make harder for AI to expand very far away easily and make snake like empires fast and easy). c) Or/end having it as function of culture difference. All this(a, b, c) can be split as 3 different "buildings"

    2) In order to speed up release of the mod, and focusing more on essential game play issues, rather than unit models, which can be polished and remodeled in peace in years to come, why you do not try to improve cooperation with other mods with similar time frame, and get some already done units, which of course can be improved, or replaced latter on. I found this peaty much cosmetic thing...it is not essential, at least before we have 100% functional game, if this unit have this color shield, or that one, or this spots on horses or not..
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  19. #279

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    So, no body from the team bothered to answer at least first suggestion...
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  20. #280
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    1) There appears to be an underlying, possibly hardcoded, issue with AI unrest. We're still investigating that. I'm not enthused by the notion of adding new buildings which exist solely for that purpose. It also adds an unnecessary layer of routine management when you take a settlement - destroy this "unrest building" - and how does it get restored if a player loses that settlement? That'll mean scripting which increases complexity and risk of error.

    2) Our modellers are not keen to make units that require subsequent work later on, that's wasted effort. Not only that, they'd prefer to do a proper job of a new unit, not half-arse it just for the sake of having something ready to release. So I'm afraid there will be no change to our approach on new units; and as far as the fans go, that appears one of the elements they are most keen on.

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