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Thread: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

  1. #2081

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    What I found with the Ptolemids is that their regional units are poor in substituting your hellenistic ones, so if you want heavy infantry or cavalry you better get the cash ready to hire some mercenaries. In the nex release they'll have even less hellenistic manpower, due to a script representing garrison units. The machimoi phalanx are more cost effective than the real deal phalanxes, meaning that in a battleline, some parts will see little action and you don't require full fledged phalangitai for what the machimoi offer, which is a sarissa wall of the same length than the professionals (unlike the pantodapoi). Others are also decent but not game changing, like the lybians acting as good skirmishers with big shields who absorb fire, and the nubians archers who do the same thing. The best regional unit in my experience is the numidian cavalry, which are available in the eastern parts of your starting domains through native colonies.

    The solution for the poor recruitment option for the ptolemids is to expand into coele-syria and syria, and grab those auxiliary units, like median cavalry or the syrian archers (cretans are the placeholder). Regions like anatolia offer much more robust native recruitment to compliment your limited hellenistic units, so it is worthwhile to expand there too. My solution to get the most out of egypt was to rely on basilike patris, which means one in Alexandria and another in Diospolis Megale (which I renamed Ptolemais Hermiou, to represent that other hellenistic city in the area). With hellenistic colonies in the lower, middle and upper nile, it creates a decent powerhouse of recruitment in a region that is otherwise lacking in native units. If you put your basilike patris elsewhere then that's ok too, but at least this way you transform your mediocre home region into a more useful one for recruitment. The bonus to public order also helps to deal with the unrest that inevitably will come from the absence of the basileus.

    I don't agree with the way the machimoi phalangitai are linked to unrest, because it is a simplistic way to depict a more complicated situation of what happened after Raphia. Authors like Christelle Fischer-Bovet (Army and Society in Ptolemaic Egypt) talk about just how complex the revolts were, it was more akin to the "mercenary war" of Carthage, combined with opportunism. The idea of making a predetermined limit of units, and from there unrest starting, seems like a rethread of the simplistic view that polybius offered "The kings of egypt fell because they armed the natives". It should probably be linked to having enough spare cash to pay for bribes and promotions, as well as periodic unrest due to below average nile floods, or other political events like defeats that generate unrest.

    The way the Ptolemids changed their army after the phase of unrest, meant that they became far more entrenched in egypt that their enemies the seleucids were in any territory. I think there should be some late reforms to represent this late thureophoroi based army, cheaper and more plentiful. It probably should solve all those manpower issues we talked previously, developing into a more realistic army for the expenses the ptolemids could afford, and which was mainly a policing and defensive force rather than an aggressive one. In the chaos of the dynastic struggles, this army maintained it's role and later on the romans decided these helleno-egyptian kleruchs would be adequate cavalry for their auxilia. It means that it held military value throughout the period, despite the political instability.
    Last edited by Hellenikon; July 13, 2020 at 01:09 PM.

  2. #2082

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenikon View Post
    The solution for the poor recruitment option for the ptolemids
    That's not really my issue with them. Ptolemaioi have the same "generic" native government range as any other successors (Anatolia, Syria, Western Iran) which offers some pretty good men, Furthermore, they have so much Hellenic land that (with some effort and moving around) you can easily create (mostly) Hellenistic armies, complemented by (further Hellenic) mercenaries in Egypt. And that's before even expanding into Lybia.

    The thing is more that Egypt as Laarchia territory sucks, unlike all the other options. Basically nothing to be gained by any Hellenistic power to Laarchia Egypt, specially as it got so much exclusive content with Hellenistic governments. Maybe it is historical, but gameplay wise, makes that native line of government completely pointless there. If it is intended to illustrate a unique cultural situation in the area... maybe an exclusive, different government type? Even for Ptolemaioi, you are better off Helenizing the entire area.

    Regarding the Machimoi Phalangites script, I read it. The unrest seems to be caused, for the most part, because you are levying Memphis' aristocracy (commoners can't become phalanxes apparently, and the rich doesn't want to become horsemen I guess). After 10 recruited (and that's a lot), it adds 4 unrest to Memphis. Then each further 5, I think? So unlike the absent pharaoh, it is not as big of a deal. No scripted revolts or spawning rebel armies.

  3. #2083

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Wait, you're supposed to Laarchia Egypt?

    I just put there Hellenic administrations save for a client government in Thebaid and called it a day.
    Furthermore, I believe that Rome must be destroyed.


  4. #2084

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Satapatiš View Post
    Wait, you're supposed to Laarchia Egypt?

    I just put there Hellenic administrations save for a client government in Thebaid and called it a day.
    Well, supposed supposed, you're really not. A curse/burden of playing Hellenic faction is you will be fighting mostly over Hellenic lands and conquests, be Hellas proper, its furthest archaic colonies, or Alexander's warpath. In this context, in which you face Hellenic or Hellenized provinces of Asia, Laarchia doesn't seem to add much, justifiably. After all, with all these Poleis conquered, your colonist pool will feel so full, you will barely remember it is a limited resource.

    It is a whole different matter if you go astray, though. Expand into Iberia. Into Gaul. Deep into Africa. While in Alexander's shadow you could choose between Laarchia for local troops and quick stability or Hellenizing the place, out of it, there's no choice to be made. You either grab an Allied government, or you start Hellenizing the place. And if you opt for the later, you will REALLY start counting on your colony points. Build a Strategia, a settler colony, and watch the Hellinistic Politeis counter slowly crawl up in order for you to actually build something useful in the area while the natives HATE YOUR GUTS.

    So I think this is the larger, strategic value of Laarchia. Direct factional government with good recruitment (for the most part) with negligible economic burden. To spare your colony points to elsewhere, where you will bloody need them.

    Least you play Baktria, that is. Quite fun, knowing I can't just raid Greece or Western Anatolia for colony points, so I have to make each and every one count, including whatever the Seleucids leave behind.

  5. #2085

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Well, usually I'm lazy and I stick to the traditional areas of expansion to collect all the grain baskets and the best Eastern Mediterranean ports. Laarchias start being useful mostly when I try to grab the Silk Road as well.
    Furthermore, I believe that Rome must be destroyed.


  6. #2086

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Satapatiš View Post
    Well, usually I'm lazy and I stick to the traditional areas of expansion to collect all the grain baskets and the best Eastern Mediterranean ports. Laarchias start being useful mostly when I try to grab the Silk Road as well.
    Which reminds me, Laarchias are kinda pointless for Seleukids and Baktria, because all Laarchia candidates are also Hyparchia candidates.

  7. #2087

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    It feels like the campaign map is missing Samnium as a provice. Why is the East getting all the fun with Thebaid and Galatia?
    Furthermore, I believe that Rome must be destroyed.


  8. #2088

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    I don't know how easy to implement or whether it would cause problems with cai this idea is. Would reducing land movement significantly but leaving large modifiers for roads be an option?
    This would allow roads to be much more strategic and important militarily, which I believe is historically accurate. Moving armies off main highways was very slow going and a logistical nightmare.
    It should also create choke points on the map causing more field battles as armies can't by pass each other.

    Negatives, might unduly effect barabrian lands in western northern europe which don't start off with roads? especially nomadic provinces.
    Historically inaccurate road placing making certain points important that shouldn't be? Not sure this is likely to be a problem but maybe.
    Cai just not coping. It can't use forts, maybe this would be similar?

    Other additional ideas. add nomadic supply traits to allow nomadic nations to move around without roads. Could lose this when choosing to become settled. This would make settling feel even more different to being nomadic.
    Possibly and similar, if less powerful effects for non-highly civilised nations?
    If possible could increase cavalry's movement in comparison to infantry? This might be hard coded. Small bodies of cavalry could still move quickly across non proper roads.

    Any trait system to help nomadic peoples might not work for cai if the ai does not regularly give armies a family member. It seems to at the moment for me but I have not played a campaign in the east for a while.

    I am sure someone will tell me this can't / shouldn't be done but I thought it could possibly help make road systems more significant and help show how important logistics are.

  9. #2089

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Would be possible to make all generals move at the same speed regardless if their bodyguard is infantry or cavalry? Because quick cavalry armies are pretty powerful, and factions that use foot generals despite having a great cavalry tradition (Bretons, Germans) gain no strategic benefit whatsoever from it.

  10. #2090

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    I think that certain historical buildings in the settlements could be more interesting if it was possible to tear them down. I'm thinking of the ones that were realistically possible to demolish - like temples and monuments (it'd quite hard to remove the entire Acropolis hill). Although demolishing them could be resulting in a temporary public order malus (and probably a very hefty one).

    For an example - have an opportunity to remove the Eyesore of the Jupiter Capitolini at the expense of dealing with the local populace expressing their discontent.
    Last edited by Satapatiš; July 21, 2020 at 08:26 AM.
    Furthermore, I believe that Rome must be destroyed.


  11. #2091

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Make Hellenistic Native governments also extend to Satrapies?

    All Hellenistic Native governments already encompass Hiparchias, but I believe Satrapy districts don't have the Hiparchia hidden attribute, so you are forced to institute a Hellenistic government in there, which is often not ideal, specially if you are after getting as many native colonies in the area (which is fair, as Iranian and Assyrian troops are plentiful and generally good enough).

  12. #2092

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Have you guys already made a trigger to get rid of Diopter Basilikoss? That anciliary is goddamn brutal, and even KH gets it, even though it doesn't make much sense.

  13. #2093

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Please DO NOT implement the "advanced rebel spawn" script. While it may make the mid to late game more interesting, it can easily kill your campaign early-game when your resources are stretched thin. You can fight half a dozen heroic victories to escape a brutal starting situation, then by random chance a giant rebel army too strong for your decimated forces spawn. If you have to keep that script, at least make the severity of the rebellion scale with the size of the player's empire

  14. #2094
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    Please DO NOT implement the "advanced rebel spawn" script. While it may make the mid to late game more interesting, it can easily kill your campaign early-game when your resources are stretched thin. You can fight half a dozen heroic victories to escape a brutal starting situation, then by random chance a giant rebel army too strong for your decimated forces spawn. If you have to keep that script, at least make the severity of the rebellion scale with the size of the player's empire
    You haven't even tested that... I have tested that script with multiple factions, Carthage, Lusitania, Celtiberia, Sweboz, Pontus, Bosphorus, Ptolemai, Seleucids and everything is good so far. The best thing is that it keeps your armies experienced and you have good opportunities to give experience to your Generals.

  15. #2095

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    You haven't even tested that... I have tested that script with multiple factions, Carthage, Lusitania, Celtiberia, Sweboz, Pontus, Bosphorus, Ptolemai, Seleucids and everything is good so far. The best thing is that it keeps your armies experienced and you have good opportunities to give experience to your Generals.
    I trust you on that. Yeah, I sorta overreacted. What I had in mind for example was playing as Bosphorus, getting your starting stack wasted clearing out the Crimean Peninsula and conquering Skythiapolis, then discovering a stack of Skythian Nobles and Skythian Riders appearing out of thin air. But since you've played some of the more brutal factions (Sweboz, Pontus, Bosphorus) and found it feasible, I guess it's good

  16. #2096
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    I trust you on that. Yeah, I sorta overreacted. What I had in mind for example was playing as Bosphorus, getting your starting stack wasted clearing out the Crimean Peninsula and conquering Skythiapolis, then discovering a stack of Skythian Nobles and Skythian Riders appearing out of thin air. But since you've played some of the more brutal factions (Sweboz, Pontus, Bosphorus) and found it feasible, I guess it's good
    Bosphorus in an especially hard campaign, not due to the rebel spawns but due to the other scrips already in place.
    Sweboz was hard too because the rebel stacks would hide in the forests but it's still manageable.

  17. #2097

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    AI Sweboz is doing too well anyway so maybe more rebels will limit them a bit.

    Here's hoping that usually slow Rome AI can survive the experience.
    Last edited by Satapatiš; August 03, 2020 at 09:40 AM.
    Furthermore, I believe that Rome must be destroyed.


  18. #2098
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    Please DO NOT implement the "advanced rebel spawn" script. While it may make the mid to late game more interesting, it can easily kill your campaign early-game when your resources are stretched thin. You can fight half a dozen heroic victories to escape a brutal starting situation, then by random chance a giant rebel army too strong for your decimated forces spawn. If you have to keep that script, at least make the severity of the rebellion scale with the size of the player's empire
    Lusi has tested that more than anyone else, so can give the most accurate feedback on the experience of it. But it's worth noting that not only is the frequency quite low (with a cooldown, so you can't get rapid recurrences of them), but the spawns are usually only 5 units. The biggest one is 8 units. They're not Rebel doomstacks by any means.

    The difficulty it brings is not that you might have to face something bigger than your depleted forces can handle. Instead, that if you don't appropriately garrison your regions, you might lose them before you can get an army to deal with a spawn.

  19. #2099

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    I presume this will force me to rethink some of my strategies. Namely, raiding (lone FMs clustered in Rebel lands without any units at all) and blooding (keep Green FM under the command of an older general outside the settlement for them to gain Auxiliary General time, mostly for KH, Celts, Rome, and Sauromatae, and to a lesser degree, other Hellenics). Keeping these characters alone might risk losing them to an attack by these local brigands.

    However, isn't it possible these rooving bands might join up in a doom stack?

  20. #2100

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Bah. I murder everything unaffiliated appearing in my territories with a healthy dose of extremely extreme prejudice. It will not affect my campaigns much.
    Furthermore, I believe that Rome must be destroyed.


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