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Thread: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

  1. #2001

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    This brings memories of playing Achean League in RTR-Platinum (or VII?) some 10 years ago. I've learnt then where Philaeia was. And the battles were freaky difficult...
    oh yes, i loved that mod. those were good times. i think QS came from RTR community as well, originally, though that was even before RTR VII. In VII, they had the idea of minor settlements like in Empire but fortified ones and the script that addressed the infinite financial growth as empire grew. also, the terrain was moded with less of an open space in mountainous regions that made for interesting and historically accurate march routes and passage contests. i also liked the way sea travel was limited to coastal areas, again making it more historically plausible. a few great ideas in that mod.

  2. #2002

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkiss View Post
    oh yes, i loved that mod. those were good times. i think QS came from RTR community as well, originally, though that was even before RTR VII. In VII, they had the idea of minor settlements like in Empire but fortified ones and the script that addressed the infinite financial growth as empire grew. also, the terrain was moded with less of an open space in mountainous regions that made for interesting and historically accurate march routes and passage contests. i also liked the way sea travel was limited to coastal areas, again making it more historically plausible. a few great ideas in that mod.
    Indeed. What a great mod it was, with truly different ideas. I especially like it for the importance that it gave to the Iberian Peninsula and Africa. Conquering Iberia as Carthage was particularly hard and you had a sense of how big Iberia was. You would face not only the Lusitanians but the Celtiberians and two other independent factions.

    About the sea travel, Erken did it for his submod and I have been playing with that too, it's very good.

  3. #2003
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkiss View Post
    i also liked the way sea travel was limited to coastal areas, again making it more historically plausible. a few great ideas in that mod.
    Am I mistaken or somebody had a submod limiting the sea-lanes also in the EBII?

  4. #2004

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    Am I mistaken or somebody had a submod limiting the sea-lanes also in the EBII?
    Erken submod

  5. #2005

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    Indeed. What a great mod it was, with truly different ideas. I especially like it for the importance that it gave to the Iberian Peninsula and Africa. Conquering Iberia as Carthage was particularly hard and you had a sense of how big Iberia was. You would face not only the Lusitanians but the Celtiberians and two other independent factions.
    and dont forget the RTR's Iberian Conflict campaign. that was honestly the best narrative based total war campaign i ever played.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    About the sea travel, Erken did it for his submod and I have been playing with that too, it's very good.
    yes, the submod should perhaps be in the main game, makes sea travel more realistic and also easier to monitor. being closer to the shore may also prevent the occasional issue the AI has with parking its army laden navy in the middle of the sea for long stretches of time.

  6. #2006
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    @Lustianio, @Sarkiss - have you tried to play RTR8? Any comments?

  7. #2007

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    @Lustianio, @Sarkiss - have you tried to play RTR8? Any comments?
    no, and i didnt even know there was RTR8. is it the one done by ahowl11?

  8. #2008

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkiss View Post
    and dont forget the RTR's Iberian Conflict campaign. that was honestly the best narrative based total war campaign i ever played.

    yes, the submod should perhaps be in the main game, makes sea travel more realistic and also easier to monitor. being closer to the shore may also prevent the occasional issue the AI has with parking its army laden navy in the middle of the sea for long stretches of time.
    Never played RTR Iberian Conflict. When I started playing mods, RTR VII was already out, so I never tried that one.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    @Lustianio, @Sarkiss - have you tried to play RTR8? Any comments?
    Never tried either. That requires having Alexander expansion which I don't have. Sadly there isn't much information online about that mod either or even good previews.

  9. #2009

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Originally Posted by Just let me post
    When the coronavirus quarantine is over, I will look for you, I will find you and I will spear you

    Originally Posted by Rad
    Not if I get him first!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilo11 View Post
    Looking forward to it, lads!

    Pardon me for bringing up this two months old discussion (regarding overhand vs. underhand spear grip) but I would like to share a video I found - as it made me remember about our little discourse:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XuhoFszfe8

    Obviously it's not to prove anything, I just found it interesting. Besides, I hope all you guys are doing fine.

  10. #2010

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilo11 View Post
    So, I didn't share this earlier, but only because I was pressed for time on my (quippy) response. But a friend and me often fought each other using (rather shoddy) recreations of antique weapons during our high school days. We had wooden gladii, long and short spears, disc shields, and also a small array of other more ridiculous things (nets and chains and whatnot; basically anything we saw in Gladiator or the original Spartacus movie). Doing one-on-one fighting, I found overhand and underhanded grips to be similarly effective, but very dependent on the situation. However, I only found them to be similarly effective because of the fact that we were fighting one-to-one. Thinking back on how I used the spear alone, or the spear and shield together, I would say with certainty that in formation overhand would be far superior. I know it was more maneuverable that way, had more force in thrusting, and was easier to return to attack position when batted away. The one scenario where I remember underhand being (possibly) better was when the shield being used was very small. In that case, holding the shield above the spear allowed one to guard one's center while thrusting, and also use the shield hand to partially guide the thrust. It was a small advantage gained by underhand, but it was there. That being said, it was only in one-on-one combat with a small shield that such tactics proved helpful. In general, I would always use overhand, largely for the reasons Rad gave above.


    P.s. For anyone interested in hands-on research, I would love to again do some spear and shield battling! I challenge you all!

    Well, the Greek pottery art shows people using both kinds of grip. But they're usually shown with the overhand one when in the formation and the underhand grip is drawn when heroes are dueling.

    I suspect that both were used and a trained spearman could switch depending on the situation.

    Lindybeige's video is missing one point related to the spears and specifically the Ancient warfare. Greek, Roman and Persian spears had metal counterweights to let them be used held at a roughly 1/3 of their length.
    Last edited by Satapatiš; May 09, 2020 at 02:19 PM.
    Furthermore, I believe that Rome must be destroyed.


  11. #2011

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Just let me post View Post
    Pardon me for bringing up this two months old discussion (regarding overhand vs. underhand spear grip) but I would like to share a video I found - as it made me remember about our little discourse:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XuhoFszfe8

    Obviously it's not to prove anything, I just found it interesting. Besides, I hope all you guys are doing fine.
    That "test" is a big joke

    A handful of untrained people (one rank deep phalanx lol), with no safe weapons and next to no protective equipment and thus no speed or intent behind any blow. It's like one of those bad pseudo-history shows where the authors push the agenda that armor was useless and demonstrate how bad mail was by having a stationary piece of cheap butted mail smashed with an axe.

    If you watched a lot of Lindybeige's videos, you'll notice that he is stubborn. Once his mind is set, nothing can change it. He'll do everything to push his opinion to other people, including disregarding and/or diminishing arguments that are contrary to his idea. Just look how he ridiculed the overhand spear slide technique. I've done some tests with it and it appears viable, but I have not done enough testing to speak with certainty. It seems to work for Thegn Thrand who did a bunch of videos about it. However, LB made a mockery of the idea in the video you posted by letting the spear drop and claiming that one had to be incredibly strong to retain the spear. Sadly, that reminded me of some dogmatic martial arts teachers I had over the years, people who refused to acknowledge that anything other than their system worked and thus limited both themselves and their students.
    Last edited by Rad; May 09, 2020 at 02:38 PM.

  12. #2012

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    If you watched a lot of Lindybeige's videos, you'll notice that he is stubborn. Once his mind is set, nothing can change it. He'll do everything to push his opinion to other people, including disregarding and/or diminishing arguments that are contrary to his idea. Just look how he ridiculed the overhand spear slide technique.
    I wholeheartedly agree, I've noticed he is very biased towards certain ideas. Although he possesses such an entertaining attire that I very much enjoy his videos (when I'm not rolling me eyes). Plus I like to listen to him, I believe it enriches my english vocabulary

    So indeed, this video needs to be taken with (huge) grain of salt (but it subtly fuels my preference towards underhand grip haha).

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    Sadly, that reminded me of some dogmatic martial arts teachers I had over the years, people who refused to acknowledge that anything other than their system worked and thus limited both themselves and their students.
    Wise words.

    So regarding viability of various spear grip techniques, I guess nothing may beat first hand experience

  13. #2013

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Yes, he is very entertaining and that's part of the issue. People get tricked into believing that he is right just because he is fun. I admit that it took me some time to see through the act.

    I honestly believe that both grips were used - they're both good ways to stab people. One or the other make more sense in different situations. Overhand was more suited for formation fighting than underhand.

    First hand experience you say? We need a few hundred people to fight to the death!
    Just kidding. A few hundred trained volunteers with decent protective eqipment and safe weapon replicas would do. It's a dream of mine.
    Last edited by Rad; May 09, 2020 at 05:52 PM.

  14. #2014

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    If you can throw a javelin, which is usually done overhand, you can learn to use a spear overhand too. Guess what Greeks were familiar with? So the argument that it can't be done, that it was never done, is flat out absurd.
    Last edited by Slaytaninc; May 09, 2020 at 06:15 PM.
    FREE THE NIPPLE!!!

  15. #2015

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Satapatiš View Post
    Well, the Greek pottery art shows people using both kinds of grip. But they're usually shown with the overhand one when in the formation and the underhand grip is drawn when heroes are dueling.

    I suspect that both were used and a trained spearman could switch depending on the situation.
    And that would make perfect sense to me, given the different qualities of each grip.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    First hand experience you say? We need a few hundred people to fight to the death!
    Just kidding. A few hundred trained volunteers with decent protective eqipment and safe weapon replicas would do. It's a dream of mine.
    Fight, fight, fight! Yeah, I have such beautiful dream too... but it's just a dream, especially now, during the COVID-19-time :/

    My best bet to do something akin would be to either find some LARPers nearby, and/or gather at some big historical battle reconstruction event and try to convince as many people as possible to join the spear brawl. People should be rather keen there.

    For example in Poland we have this annual staging of 1410 Battle of Grunwald (the biggest Medieval battle) with ~1500 participants

    https://translate.google.pl/translat....php%3Fcat%3D2

  16. #2016

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Proper experiments require serious organization and preparation. Haphazard attempts give lackluster results.

    I know about Grunwald. The scale of its reenactment is incredible. I'd like to go one day

  17. #2017
    Apani's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Some suggestions about dynamic names, apologies in advance if any of these are inaccurate and conflict with the research you've already conducted yourselves.

    Ptolemais-Akko: The Greek name for the city was Ake (Ἄκη). Furthermore, wikipedia mentions how the city got renamed to Antiocheia Ptolemais shortly after Alexander's conquests, and then just to Ptolemais, which stuck in Roman times as the place got named "Colonia Claudia Felix Ptolemais Garmanica Stabilis". So, my suggestion would be: Antiocheia Ptolemais for the Seleucids, Ptolemais for the rest of the Diadochi, Ake for the Koinon Hellenon, and possibly Colonia Ptolemais for the Romans, otherwise just Ptolemais. (And possibly Antigoneia Ptolemais for Makedon)

    Ray-Arsakia-Europos: Apparently it was Seleukos Nikator that renamed it to Europos in honour of his home city in Macedon. Non-Seleucid Greek factions could call it Rhagai instead, and Romans could call it Rhagae.

    Leptis Magna (Lapqi): could have a dynamic name for Greeks as well, Leptis Megale.

    Utica-Atig: Likewise, could be Ityke for the Greeks.

    And Cirta could be Kirta for Greeks. Likewise, you could add a Roman spelling for cities that are lacking it: Nisaia, Chorasmia, Alexandria in Arachosia, and so on in the far east. Then Seleucia, Damascus, Antiochia, and so on.

    On a similar note, Alexandria Eschate: Alexandria Ultima for Romans.

    Prophthasia-Fra: This could be Alexandreia Prophthasia for Greeks, and Alexandria in Drangiana for Romans.

    Kabyle-Kabule: Cabilia for Romans?

    Arretium could be Arretion for the Greeks, and the Etruscan Aritim if it goes independent. Capua could Kapua for Greeks and you could have the Oscan Kapu if it goes indipendent. Ariminum could be Ariminon.

    Ebusus-Iboshim: Ebousos for the Greeks.

  18. #2018

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Hi guys,

    One potential suggestion on my side - to make the rebels more aggressive and stronger. Particularly those rebels which show up on the territory controlled by the player - not the rebels in rebel-controlled provinces.

    At present these rebels typically stay put on a single spot or rotate between a few spots on the territory (if there are watchtowers). This causes limited amount of devastation. Very often the player may chose to ignore these rebels for an extended period of time.

    Here is my suggestion in greater detail:

    1. If the rebel army stays in a player-controlled territory for a certain amount of time (say 5 turns) - automatically add additional 5 units to the rebel army . If it is not confronted by the player for another 5 turns - add another 5 units. Alternatively - add one unit for each turn when the rebel army is not challenged.
    2. After the rebel army size goes 15 or more - make it attack the provincial capital.

    I think that this seems realistic. Just consider the Spartacus revolt. It started from a small group, then more people joined and ultimately they started attacking settlements and the entire Roman Empire.

    This would affect gameplay, particularly in the middle or latter part of the game, when the player controls large territory and multiple provinces far from the capital. This is also a period when the player has huge military power and generally is in position to wipe out any faction on the map and does not feel a real challenge.

    Cheers,
    Nick

  19. #2019

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by nickygg View Post
    Hi guys,

    One potential suggestion on my side - to make the rebels more aggressive and stronger. Particularly those rebels which show up on the territory controlled by the player - not the rebels in rebel-controlled provinces.

    At present these rebels typically stay put on a single spot or rotate between a few spots on the territory (if there are watchtowers). This causes limited amount of devastation. Very often the player may chose to ignore these rebels for an extended period of time.

    Here is my suggestion in greater detail:

    1. If the rebel army stays in a player-controlled territory for a certain amount of time (say 5 turns) - automatically add additional 5 units to the rebel army . If it is not confronted by the player for another 5 turns - add another 5 units. Alternatively - add one unit for each turn when the rebel army is not challenged.
    2. After the rebel army size goes 15 or more - make it attack the provincial capital.

    I think that this seems realistic. Just consider the Spartacus revolt. It started from a small group, then more people joined and ultimately they started attacking settlements and the entire Roman Empire.

    This would affect gameplay, particularly in the middle or latter part of the game, when the player controls large territory and multiple provinces far from the capital. This is also a period when the player has huge military power and generally is in position to wipe out any faction on the map and does not feel a real challenge.
    That's simply something we are not able to do in the game. However, the new rebel spawn script for the next patch will show more agressive rebels spawns on the campaign map, even capable of conquering your cities.

  20. #2020

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    That's simply something we are not able to do in the game. However, the new rebel spawn script for the next patch will show more agressive rebels spawns on the campaign map, even capable of conquering your cities.
    So I guess we can consider Galatia a sneak peek into the next patch then.

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