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Thread: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

  1. #2441

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Been reading up on Hellenistic armies (especially the pike phalanx) and I've finally familiarized myself with both the Achaean and Aetolian Leagues. Can I suggest that in future releases there be a way to represent the sheer pugnaciousness and self-absorbed love of freedom all southern Greeks had? It should be monumentally difficult for ANY faction (so not just Macedon, but Pergamon, Egypt, or any other state) to build any government other than allied democratic and allied oligarchic (no matter the culture of the invading state - the greeks hated the macedonians sometimes even more than barbarian invaders ) and have barely manageable and content populations. Like there should always be a large revolt factor in southern greece, that goes from extreme to barely contained if they picked said allied governments. In the course of a campaign, that means seeing Koinon Hellenon probably becoming the most resurrected faction out of the whole roster.

    As an addition to the whole roleplay of having certain regions where the peoples are famously independent and free-spiried, may I suggest applying these *higher" (depends on meta-gameplay balance only devs keep track of) revolt risks to these cultures/regions/peoples (revolt risks for invading/foreign cultures holding following lands): the nomadic steppes (I mean the steppe peoples ride free and all that, also despised settled societies telling them what to do), illyria (it took massacres by Tiberius and Germanicus to finally pacify them, am I right?), Germania, Pictland (so Scotland), Arabia, Judea (do they have one province?), Rome itself, and then Eastern Europe (specifically lands held by the Lugians?). I know people already gripe about how hard it is to expand in EB2, but considering historical accuracy is the goal here, all aforementioned lands/peoples were just THAT difficult to pacify (as long as one doing the pacifying are NOT native to land itself).

    P.S. Forgot, the Dacians were also infamously intractable. As well as the Armenians, and neighboring mountain tribes (people living in mountain ranges north of Iran).

    P.P.S. Forgot also about the Baktrians (Afghanistan). Them too.
    Last edited by Pooploop; July 04, 2022 at 06:13 AM.

  2. #2442

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    This is already represented by certain regions having higher base unrest. For the Hellenes, there are the Statis (-20% law) and Hellenic Autonomy (-20% happiness) buildings.

  3. #2443

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    I'm not discounting those buildings shoebopp. What I'm saying is that even with them, it still does not capture how much of a headache ruling the Hellenes were. Also, I think such features are lacking in all the other cultures I've mentioned. The intensity I'm thinking of is that once every 5-10 years, expect to see a potent rebel stack coming up to actually attack your settlements and an increased chance that a formerly defeated native faction will rise again. At the very least, you all have to see this as a fair point if any of the settled societies take any "steppe" lands. See the nightmare every chinese dynasty had on their hands managing the tribes, even in the eras where they had somewhat of a "victory" (e.g. Han post Emperor Wu, Tang during and right after Emperor Taizong, and the Jin Dynasty right up until Genghis). There has to be actual terrible consequences for PLAYERS and PC factions in being where they "don't belong". Like consequences in the shape of aggressive rebel stacks, and very little profit from said regions.

  4. #2444

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Didn't the Romans control Greece quite effectively? Were there more than the one major rebellion in 88bc?

  5. #2445

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    This is more of a question than a suggestion: is there a Royal Page system of education in each Hellenistic capital, or at least in the settlement where the Hellenistic Faction Leader currently resides? You know, where the young noble sons are sent as hostages,to learn military discipline and command (apprenticeship style/junior officer/observer), prove their manhood and curry favor with the King (no Macedonian was considered a man and allowed to recline on couch unless he has killed boar or lion unaided), and get a smattering of philosophy and the higher arts (Aristotle at Mieza is the most famous example). Something like a better and more realistic alternative to sending them to Athens and Sparta, which I kinda realize is redundant - the education that the Successors received was what allowed them to rule the world, and no Athenian or Spartan citizen ever collectively achieved as much as them. Fully trained young generals (game terms) at 21 can become Hetairoi or - in this era - termed a full fledged "Friend" of the King.

  6. #2446
    Anarius's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    I haven't been able to play in a while because of my computer situation, but as I recall the Sweboz are getting their own voices now which is very exciting. I thought I might suggest that for taunts and warcries "gagaga" from the Kragehul I spear inscription could work. Of course it's much, much later than the game's time period but to me it seems to pair well with the Celtic "basbh basbh basbh" and the Greeks' "alala".

    I also thought something like "I dedicate you to the god" would be a nice taunt. The promise that the slain enemy will be considered sacrifices to Tiwaz or Wodanaz is a nice threat and fits the faction I feel.

  7. #2447

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    If technically feasible, it would be a bit more balanced if killing routing enemies did not earn experience. Now cavalry tends to get a lot of unearned experience.

  8. #2448

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    more rebel army outside settlement and less units on rebel settlement, or make rebels pull units out of settlement to engage player army if possible.
    i feel like siege battle with rebels is tedious grind especially with harder difficulty and even fast forward is not enough.
    i'm really new to this mod and i never played game past 20 turns so it might not work as i think, just my opinion.

  9. #2449

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Can we get a new building type for most factions where there is allocated territory for that building to be built so that allows for reinforcing rare tribal units like DAC team did with their waystation building. Because it is highly annoying or almost impossible to reinforce many units that can only be recruited and reinforced from one particular settlement on the map. Examples are units like goidelic or caledonians or night raiders or iberian asturians or various gallic germanic units that come from one place or even worse campaign experiences that I had with Dacia where most of their elite come from 2 settlements and you constantly have to come back and reinforce them there. Why not make a new building type such as "tribal gathering outpost". You guys can make a larger territory where this building would be able to be built in order to ease the reinforcement pain that players go in many of their campaigns. Not saying that the building should be available all over the map, but a larger territory surrounding the homeland region where one could atleast reinforce rare units given that the unit has stock in a settlement which can recruit it..
    Drapanai reinforceable( but not recruitable ) near Adrian Sea given the home settlement has stock? anyone? Italian rare units like lucanians reinforceable in Sicily and near the Alps due to waystation reinforcement building? Rare Keltoi units reincorceable all over Galia due to the waystation building anyone think that would be nice and not break historical morality?
    Last edited by bordinis; November 22, 2022 at 12:32 PM.

  10. #2450

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by bordinis View Post
    Can we get a new building type for most factions where there is allocated territory for that building to be built so that allows for reinforcing rare tribal units like DAC team did with their waystation building. Because it is highly annoying or almost impossible to reinforce many units that can only be recruited and reinforced from one particular settlement on the map. Examples are units like goidelic or caledonians or night raiders or iberian asturians or various gallic germanic units that come from one place or even worse campaign experiences that I had with Dacia where most of their elite come from 2 settlements and you constantly have to come back and reinforce them there. Why not make a new building type such as "tribal gathering outpost". You guys can make a larger territory where this building would be able to be built in order to ease the reinforcement pain that players go in many of their campaigns. Not saying that the building should be available all over the map, but a larger territory surrounding the homeland region where one could atleast reinforce rare units given that the unit has stock in a settlement which can recruit it..
    Drapanai reinforceable( but not recruitable ) near Adrian Sea given the home settlement has stock? anyone? Italian rare units like lucanians reinforceable in Sicily and near the Alps due to waystation reinforcement building? Rare Keltoi units reincorceable all over Galia due to the waystation building anyone think that would be nice and not break historical morality?
    That's an interesting thought. Obviously, one can just recruit from further back and then schlepp the forces forward, but that is unnecessary micro that could be avoided by such a building. I think the coding in EBII should also make your suggestion feasible, given that basically all regions have hidden resources that tag the region (I believe the whole AOR system is built around that). The question is mainly how easy it would be, and more importantly, whether there are free building slots to be used. I don't know how full the EBII's building roster is (I assume "very" is the answer), but it would be interesting to hear a take from the team!
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  11. #2451
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by bismarck 1899 View Post
    Didn't the Romans control Greece quite effectively? Were there more than the one major rebellion in 88bc?
    Yeah, pretty much. I'm not against Pooploop's suggestion, but if you as the player of the SPQR faction enslave/exterminate a province like Corinth (Korinthos) like the Romans did historically in 146 BC (same year they did the same to Carthage in Third Punic War), then that province shouldn't have unrest for a long time. Just my 2 cents! I think that should be the payoff for that option, while sacking provides an economic bonus and slight public order bonus, and occupying means higher unrest but all existing infrastructure stays in place, the larger population provides a larger tax base, and the population size isn't reduced so that settlement upgrades aren't affected. Historically, the Greeks in Greece (and for that matter Macedonians who got stomped in Fourth Macedonian War of 150-148 BC with the pretender Andriscus's uprising) didn't rebel against Roman rule for decades until encouraged by the Pontic invasion in 88 BC and their fight against Sulla.

    Also, I asked this question recently in the "Map of Hellenic Poleis" thread: "Great map, thanks for sharing. One thing, though: why aren't there also starting Hellenistic poleis at Emporion in Iberia (Empuries, Spain) and at Pontic Olbia along the Black Sea in Scythia (Ukraine)? Those were solid Greek colonies historically. Emporion even had its own mint pumping out currency that influenced neighboring Iberian peoples and their economic practices when they adopted coinage, a similar situation with Iberians around Phoenician (and then Carthaginian) Gader."

  12. #2452

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    I think the Bosporans should be able to build their most basic Nomadic government, Symmakhoi Nomades, in Small Camps. As it stands their only option on taking neighboring Paniardis is either keep the basic conquest government until the population grows from ~400 to 800 (forsaking all military recruitment in the interim, which they can ill-afford) or install an allied state and have Eleutheroi conversion make one day installing settled government (already a long-term goal) an even more distant prospect. Not a fun realization.

  13. #2453

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Hey, happy christmas!

    My suggestion would be to change the javelin animation to that of the Divide and conquer mod and that way, Javelineers won't move from their positions to unintentionally crash with the enemy.

    Thanks for listening.

  14. #2454
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    One thing that has bugged me for a while and that I often change before I start a new campaign: Spartan hoplites not having the "command" attribute in the export_descr_unit file, which allows them to inspire nearby units on the battlefield. It is rather odd that all the other similar elite heavy infantry have this trait and yet they do not. Why is that? One would think having the Spartans on your side in the battle would give you a little bit of an edge and morale booster, even with their soured reputation following the 371 BC Battle of Leuctra.

  15. #2455

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    One thing that has bugged me for a while and that I often change before I start a new campaign: Spartan hoplites not having the "command" attribute in the export_descr_unit file, which allows them to inspire nearby units on the battlefield. It is rather odd that all the other similar elite heavy infantry have this trait and yet they do not. Why is that? One would think having the Spartans on your side in the battle would give you a little bit of an edge and morale booster, even with their soured reputation following the 371 BC Battle of Leuctra.
    I looked back at the concept thread for them, and it was agreed that they should have command. I forgot to add it.

  16. #2456
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    I looked back at the concept thread for them, and it was agreed that they should have command. I forgot to add it.
    Hah! We all make mistakes. I'm just glad this is now sorted out, then.
    Not to toot my own horn too much, but I remember being the guy who originally took the KH general and applied him to different Hellenistic factions, and then someone else then recolored some of them purple instead of red to fit their bodyguard cavalry's colors and provide variety. I guess I do have a small impact around here sometimes.

  17. #2457

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by NapoleonMaster View Post
    Hey, happy christmas!

    My suggestion would be to change the javelin animation to that of the Divide and conquer mod and that way, Javelineers won't move from their positions to unintentionally crash with the enemy.

    Thanks for listening.
    I agree with this, it’s one thing that drives me nuts trying to maintain a triplex acies. How can we fix this if it doesn’t go into the main mod?

  18. #2458

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost0128 View Post
    I agree with this, it’s one thing that drives me nuts trying to maintain a triplex acies. How can we fix this if it doesn’t go into the main mod?
    It's not going into the main mod, because there's no way the javelin ranges featured would be possible if thrown from the shoulder.

    If you want to change it, you need to edit the modelDB to replace the EB_Javelin_Prec animation and it's variations with one of the M2TW ones.

  19. #2459

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    I noticed that unit rosters, expecially barbarians, tend to have too many similar, all purpose units. This is true for example for the arevaci and lusitani, they have like, a dozen of infantry units with similar or downright equal stats, so i thought what is the point having so many units wich are almost identical, expect for the appearence. The variety is amazing, but many of them i guess are just there for show, not because the faction needs that specific unit of spearmen or swordsmen in order to be balanced. The east factions also have a ton of light cavalry which are almost the same thing just with another skin. EB1 for example, had a more interesting unit differentiation in terms of stats and purpose.

  20. #2460

    Default Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by randy_cat View Post
    I noticed that unit rosters, expecially barbarians, tend to have too many similar, all purpose units. This is true for example for the arevaci and lusitani, they have like, a dozen of infantry units with similar or downright equal stats, so i thought what is the point having so many units wich are almost identical, expect for the appearence. The variety is amazing, but many of them i guess are just there for show, not because the faction needs that specific unit of spearmen or swordsmen in order to be balanced. The east factions also have a ton of light cavalry which are almost the same thing just with another skin. EB1 for example, had a more interesting unit differentiation in terms of stats and purpose.
    The purpose is to represent the geographical variety in cultures present, not fill gameplay slots.

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