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Thread: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

  1. #41
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    I think i found the new evidence, a glimpse of light, for Hun Salvation

    Pict 1



    Pict 2



    Notice the Hun finally did attack, but look again on garrison + number , compare with full stack Hun, its almost equal, so maybe the problem was on the unit quality itself, imagine if with this small number unit + garrison can hold the Hun what about full stack 20 ???

    Its appear when dealing with siege the Hun unit get underpower compare to fieldbattle. So if i we can found the unit quality and try to compare with other faction perhaps we can reserve the position.

    Remember AI attack based on minimum chance of win, perhaps Hun faction get heavy nerf when going to normal siege ???
    Last edited by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze; May 10, 2015 at 03:36 PM.
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  2. #42
    SharpEyed's Avatar Be Fair and Thankful!
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    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    You must be right about that, when I do besieging with my hordes, even if i have overwhelming big force (like 2 full stack Hordes!), autoresolve odds are mostly in AI's side, stupidly.

    It's because those Arrow towers most likely, because if they are dead, my chances are being higher.

    And no, it's not about quality of units, I always use high quality stuff, but just because there are no infantry (or very low amount) I get to see low chances on my side.

    Well actually in ur pictures, they have some good quality infantry and even the best onagers, still odds are so stupid, should have been on their side big time, not like this slightly.

    - - -

    There are tables in db about Autoresolve stuff, but idk how hard to mod them.

    - - -

    Also the main reason AI doesn't attack Huns mostly, must be the stupidity of Autoresolve odds again.

    Like this, I guess: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post14501431 (Huns vs Visigoths one, if I attacked them, they all even have fortified stances ready!)

    Thou sometimes I see odds are being in their favour more than %60, if they got a lot spears, and if battle is 1v1, but I win easily without big casualties (if I play myself of course)

    - - -

    So if you solve this problem, you most likely will solve the both main, biggest, frustrating, stupid problems.
    Last edited by SharpEyed; May 10, 2015 at 04:26 PM.

  3. #43
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    Yeah that right, now this is still only theory :

    1. if army (not inside city) + garrison from city the AI Hun sure do bite the bait
    2. if army inside the city + garrison , the AI Hun didnt go bite the bait

    Now notice even number or army stay same, garrison + unit but have different outcome between inside the city and outside the city, what we need to do just swap the value and trick AI to see that even army inside the wall, they see like outside the wall in term autoresolve.

    I know its stil theory but worth to try
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  4. #44
    SharpEyed's Avatar Be Fair and Thankful!
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    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze View Post
    what we need to do just swap the value
    hm you mean autoresolve values?

  5. #45
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    I think today will yield some good result, anyways i already got life subject that will be valuable for reseach

    Patient Zero



    I only need to add more number until AI denied attack, then i can go to phase 2 , where i will alter slighly variable untill AI able to pass his limit
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  6. #46
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    Patient Zero Part 2



    Its appear AI able to chew full stack as long they can banded together . Now here the interesting question ? Why they dont attack at first sight ? I suspect its related to AI core logic.

    Patient Zero Part 3



    Hmm i do make some several change perhaps one of the recent change i made was the actual value, now if i can reverse the condition back by disable AI to attack then i can concluded my reseach

    Patient Zero Part 4



    Yep finally i able to isolate the code not on 5 min ago, when i minimize to value like 0.1 the AI stop the Attack but if i set it back to default 1, then AI able to continue siege attack, there is nothing coincidence in AI , especially i already try several test with same result, even that already more than enough, now lets me try large value, and see how the AI handle it.

    The goal itself to let Hun AI attack like normal AI, anyways its more then breakthrough after several month working with negative result
    Last edited by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze; May 11, 2015 at 08:06 AM.
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  7. #47
    SharpEyed's Avatar Be Fair and Thankful!
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    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    Last one was cool, it's almost fifty fifty but they still attack, are the odds like if it was open battle or you changed different things than chance of winning stuff (aka autoresolve values)?

    So let's say you solved "no-Siege" problem, what about Open battle problem, AI refuses to attack big Horde armies you know

  8. #48
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    So let's say you solved "no-Siege" problem, what about Open battle problem, AI refuses to attack big Horde armies you know
    Hmm, you mean they afraid to attack Hun or what ? Well its regarding on auto resolve things, i able to crack some of the code will try tinkering a bit and see how its will bring impact to the game, but right now i can confirm i able to enable and disable AI Hun to attack city or not attack city.
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  9. #49

    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    That's pretty awsome news Jun Pretty impressed.


    I see what you mean about outside vs inside, the AI is happy to fight the same army outside but as soon as you go inside they never attack.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze View Post
    Hmm, you mean they afraid to attack Hun or what ? Well its regarding on auto resolve things, i able to crack some of the code will try tinkering a bit and see how its will bring impact to the game, but right now i can confirm i able to enable and disable AI Hun to attack city or not attack city.
    yea that's what i meant, idk if it's only about Huns thou.
    (you have my save file still I guess, you might try with that one)

    and cool, 1 less problem out of million at least
    too bad can't give another rep
    Last edited by SharpEyed; May 11, 2015 at 08:59 AM.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    Gotta say it's one of the biggest issues in the game for me, playing my first WRE presented two huge problems that just ruined the game for me. One, the hunnic invasion stopped at my first town and raided for 40 years until attila died. So much for "scoruge of god" The second one was AI sending dozens of stacks to sit in the ocean, the ERE had 18 full stacks out there. Luckily Jun fixed that one early on.

    The AI hounding you accross the map and never expanding were other issues but they weren't as blatent as the never seige and sit in the ocean ones.
    Last edited by the herald; May 11, 2015 at 09:29 AM.

  12. #52
    SharpEyed's Avatar Be Fair and Thankful!
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    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    yea i was obviously joking about million problems, he already solved most of those

    I'm mentioning mod to youtubers (like HeirofCarthage) to review or use but nothing yet
    Last edited by SharpEyed; May 11, 2015 at 10:23 AM.

  13. #53
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    Dont happy yet, while true i able to disable and enable ai will to attack city, but the lust to actually captured city instead raiding is still not found, you see this AI i dont know how to describe its appear have couple option that chain link them together to do certain action.

    What i able to solve now is just half the link, there are still lot of thing cant be answered. But its better then nothing for now.

    In simple words, each turn the AI with luck may actually attack your city using multiple number of stack its have. Now what i need to do is pin point the source of AI code to enable random chance for attack and make it almost happens every turn. Like what other AI already done in common lot.
    Last edited by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze; May 11, 2015 at 12:09 PM.
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  14. #54
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    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    Well I see, idk if it has something to do with script as well, wish we had some pro help about this :/

  15. #55
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    Dont worry its not related to the script but AI core, the work is simple actually by test each variable and look which one that allow ai to attack, after that gather it together and knit the new AI logic. Boring job more be precise because its require you quit game for 30 - 50 times perhaps.

    I even already open youtube hearing sacred sprit music for one hours, i can fell like old native indian, chanting alone
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  16. #56
    SharpEyed's Avatar Be Fair and Thankful!
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    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze View Post
    Dont worry its not related to the script but AI core, the work is simple actually by test each variable and look which one that allow ai to attack, after that gather it together and knit the new AI logic. Boring job more be precise because its require you quit game for 30 - 50 times perhaps.

    I even already open youtube hearing sacred sprit music for one hours, i can fell like old native indian, chanting alone
    oh man. good that u have a good pc at least.. testing is so tiring stuff..

    But nobody will do those tests for you anyway.. Especially as there is no other AI modder around..
    Well what can I say, good luck..

  17. #57
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    Hmm, i still dont understand how the AI for Hun actually work
    1. siege value already fixed
    2. army composition already fixed ( i doubt this kind related)
    3. I even only set 2 job for AI that it attacking enemy settlement

    Still with all job disable and AI only know to attack city , they still do raiding with realy raise big issue ?? Why they do raiding to settlement that have no garrison at all ?? Why they even do that raiding stance ? What they thinking ?

    Whoever create AI for nomadic Hun should be fired immediately considering the title itself ATTILA yet all they doing is raiding, sorry guys cant do much help for this , at least now they can attack your city in multiple stack but that will depend on your luck , did the AI decide to attack your city or not ???

    Or perhaps how the AI handle if raiding stance got disabled ???
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  18. #58
    SharpEyed's Avatar Be Fair and Thankful!
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    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze View Post
    Or perhaps how the AI handle if raiding stance got disabled ???
    Oh snap, why it didn't come to my mind anyway.. I even did a mod for Forced march..

    Anyway, the tables u need to look are;

    campaign_stance_effects_junctions_tables, campaign_stances_tables and well for stance's explanation text: effect_bundles_tables

    Just delete all raiding related values, it will work like a charm.
    Yes you will see that button there still (to remove it, need some lua scripting stuff that i didnt work on) but it will just act like Normal stance, and AI will not use at all.

    I don't mind you to delete it, as I never use it, neither like AI using it.
    Last edited by SharpEyed; May 11, 2015 at 02:35 PM.

  19. #59
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    Yeah already done that, for hun only, so far they AI do move his troop much but seem nothing, you know what , after looking carefully i notice the settlement i garrison was lvl lvl 4, as we know lvl 4 have basic wall, perhaps there also another value that rule out AI Hun to ignore walled settlement.

    Will test again by downgrade settlement into lvl 3 and see did they do attack ? which they should do theoricaly, i have lvl 4 walled settlement with no garrison and the AI just camp it forever without do anything, its like slap into my face as AI modder.

    Anyways i notice some pattern

    AI ------> city target ------> yes/no -----------> capture city/ raid---------> move out after couple turn -------> come back again to failure target -----> rinse and repeat

    Its like devil circle
    Last edited by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze; May 11, 2015 at 02:55 PM.
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  20. #60
    SharpEyed's Avatar Be Fair and Thankful!
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    Default Re: Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze View Post
    Yeah already done that, for hun only, so far they AI do move his troop much but seem nothing, you know what , after looking carefully i notice the settlement i garrison was lvl lvl 4, as we know lvl 4 have basic wall, perhaps there also another value that rule out AI Hun to ignore walled settlement.

    Will test again by downgrade settlement into lvl 3 and see did they do attack ? which they should do theoricaly, i have lvl 4 walled settlement with no garrison and the AI just camp it forever without do anything, its like slap into my face as AI modder.
    oh boy. man it's nerve killing stuff.

    and hmm how you removed it for Huns only btw?

    Quote Originally Posted by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze
    Anyways i notice some pattern

    AI ------> city target ------> yes/no -----------> capture city/ raid---------> move out after couple turn -------> come back again to failure target -----> rinse and repeat

    Its like devil circle
    Yea well we kinda already figured that out, full of crap.
    They tried to do some AI improvement, but it just kicked back.
    Last edited by SharpEyed; May 11, 2015 at 03:00 PM.

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