Return to the lorica segmentata unit(request)+any good mods?

[Memnon the Rhodian]

It would be a cool idea if the Romans got a new lorica segmentata unit. Also, any mods I should get?

[the herald]

Check this mod out: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...lory-and-units

Adds two units of segmentata legionaires, they're just taken from Rome 2 currently but I assume they'll be edited more in future.

[stalker33]

I am wondering why people keep asking about this anachronism. sure, the armor is cool but it was absolutely incompatible for this time period.

[Vanders]

I am wondering why people keep asking about this anachronism. sure, the armor is cool but it was absolutely incompatible for this time period.

The answer is very simple and quite obvious: it's not about historical accuracy but the fact that the armour simply looks cool.

[the herald]

Its likely because it was considered more effective and iconic of the Romans in their glory days. The ultimate challenge in Attila is taking the WRE and keeping it alive and maybe returning it to it former glory, segmentata would be a great example of that resurrection. Not to mention that from my understanding chainmail and scale became the default because of the problems of the period, segmentata was harder to maintain and to train troops to use it. As the Germanic peoples began to fill the roman ranks and as the empire hit numerous catastrophes both internally and externally segmentata became less favourable over the easier to use mail and scale.

Mail didn't need constant upkeep (supply lines), niche expertise (mail was common place in europe, segmentata was limited to Rome), specific training (segmentata also needed additional training time for users to get used to its more limited movements) and had familiarity (mail was common and most troops taken into the legions would have favored the familiar armour). In an empire with internal safety for supply lines and excess time to train men segmentata would once again become a potential alternative.



It's not hard to imagine that if the Roman empire had a resurrection the segmentata would once again enter service, likely because most of the conditions that made it unfavorable would be gone or resolved.

[stalker33]

The segmentata started, even if slowly and gradually, to be replaced even before the third century crisis. the chainmail and scale armour were more useful for the new warfare. this is in the same cathegory as the disappearance of the square scutum shield, the pilum, the gladius. the Roman empire had a resurrection during the reign of Justinian. it had several places of decent production of armour in the IV century and it definitely was not on the brink of catastrophy for all the period since the late III century, but there wasn't a good reason to return the segmentata

[the herald]

From what I've read it was still superior to mail or scale in terms of infantry warfare, it was just beaten by other factors like supply and the unique training it required. The benefits it provided over other options were considered small enough that it faults began to outweigh its positives, if the empire were to return to it glory days so to speak (increased army size, a larger focus on heavy infantry, etc.) it's plausible the armour could have made a comeback.

From what I've seen on the subject the increasing German element of the legions was one of the prime reasons it was phased out, they often had experience with mail and they disliked the limited range of motion afforded by the segmentata. That change in motion required troops to relearn and adapt their techniques which which was often met with initially reduced potential and discontent. Not to mention the constant supply issues associated withe segmentata, the leather interior would regularly need replacement due to rotting caused by sweat, the shoulders and various other plates would often be torn off or damaged in battle which required specific expertise and replacement in the aftermath just to make it effective again. Mail had none of the above issues, it afforded a larger range of motion and was easier to supply, repair and replace even if it was inferior in its protection of the wearer.

[stalker33]

The point is that the whole method of warfare during the late Roman Empire was changed. the traditional "true roman" cohortes with the segmentata and the gladius ceased to be actual for the common methods and battle tactic performed by the opponent. the rise of the heavy shock cavalry between the "barbarian" foes (not by numbers but their effect on the battle), the increase in usage of the misslie weapons. the romans needed more flexibilty both on the tactical and strategical fields. the 6,000 size legiones became outdated for the same reason.
I believe some experts here could provide a longer and better explanation of all the late roman evolution but in short the the segmentata disappearance was part of a much larger process of changes in the warfare. as i said above, the Romans pretty much returned their glory during the reconquest of Justinian, the ERE had periods of stability (relatively speaking) but they had no reason to return this armour. speaking about the Eastern part, the squamata was the perfect armour, since it offered better protection against arrows. the segmentata also covered less body parts than the chain mail.
adding to this, you listed enough additional reasons to tell why segmentata armour became incompatible.