View Poll Results: Add Colchians and Iberians unit?

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  • Yes

    18 60.00%
  • No

    12 40.00%
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Thread: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

  1. #21

    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

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    Last edited by Khevsur; November 09, 2019 at 06:15 PM.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

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    Last edited by Khevsur; November 09, 2019 at 06:15 PM.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

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    Last edited by Khevsur; November 09, 2019 at 06:21 PM.

  4. #24
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

    Secondary weapons don't work with spears as primary weapons in the M2TW engine, it's bugged.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

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  6. #26

    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

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    Last edited by Khevsur; November 09, 2019 at 06:18 PM.

  7. #27
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khevsur View Post
    Historically Spear is Dominant weapon Antique Colchis and Iberia.
    Completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. You can't give units a primary spear and secondary anything else, they will never use their spears.

    If you have a problem with that, I suggest you take it up with CA, since it's their error.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

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    Last edited by Khevsur; November 09, 2019 at 06:17 PM.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.





  10. #30

    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

    for those concerned, there are already 2 units representing this specific region in the game: Caucasian lancers and an infantry unit (concepted by paullus, Arjos, created by Arsaces II).
    things aint as bad as they may look.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

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    Last edited by Khevsur; July 09, 2016 at 02:40 PM.

  12. #32
    Boogie Knight's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

    Are the Iberians of the Caucasus any relation to the Iberians of the Iberian peninsula? I hadn't heard of another group with the same name.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

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    Last edited by Khevsur; November 09, 2019 at 06:20 PM.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

    Could you put the images in spoilers please.

    Thanks

  15. #35
    Cohors_Evocata's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khevsur View Post
    Phæzæghashkha ?- is not colchian names.
    They're supposed to represent (west) Circassian groups, though I doubt modern-day ethnic categories would be fully applicable at that point. There is a concept for a Colchian unit, but no work has been done on them so far and it may not be final in its current shape.
    I tend to edit my posts once or several times after writing and uploading them. Please keep this in mind when reading a recent post of mine. Also, should someone, for some unimaginable reason, wish to rep me, please add your username in the process, so I can at least know whom to be grateful towards.

    My thanks in advance.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

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    Last edited by Khevsur; November 09, 2019 at 06:18 PM.

  17. #37
    Cohors_Evocata's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

    Response from our historian on the region:

    I already knew that thread, the "problem" with it is that the Kartvelian units (Iberia), are based mostly (sometimes solely) from Kolkhian/Maiotian finds. That already is questionable (diachronically it's saying that everything is the same culture, because today it is Georgia)...

    Plus there is a concept labeled as "Georgian/Colchian Warrior", which is blatantly the Osprey reconstruction of the Khalybes described by Herodotos. And they lived in Pokr Hayk on our map, plus are likely not even Kartvelian...

    The use of the Borjgali as a symbol is also not so accurate, as afaik its first appearances date from the 5th century AD. Nevertheless it is very ancient, it is a Solar/Flow of Time symbol...

    Overall for this specific unit, the Kolkhian infantry, I'd say no, as it completely disregard the Hellenistic influence to the local communities, since I wanted this unit to represent the coastal urban people...
    The inland unit has already been made, the North-Western Caucasian one, and of course Khevsur doesn't recognise the name, it isn't Kartvelian afterall, since no Kartvelebi lived there [emoji14]

    In the future I'd like to concept Kartvelian units, maybe something useful will come out of that thread...
    EDIT: an addition from the same historian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boogie Knight View Post
    Are the Iberians of the Caucasus any relation to the Iberians of the Iberian peninsula? I hadn't heard of another group with the same name.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The "culprit" is actually the Hellenic letter beta, which has the allophones "b" and "w", later the Romani came and kept on writing down the "b", but in Latin those sounds aren't allophones, and they should've used the "u" (but couldn't have known which one of the two Hellenic pronounciations was the proper one.

    Caucasian Iberia comes from the people known as Sasperi, whose land was called Hwer, which a Hellenic speaker writes as "Iber", pronounced "Iwer/Iber" (to a Hellenic ear, both are the same, imagine hearing an Aussie and a Brit, they might sound different, but hearing them saying the same sentence, you register the same words in your brain)...

    Caucasian Albania, is named after its people the Aluan, written down as "Alban", pronounced "Alwan/Alban"...

    Centuries later and people reading names as if they belonged to their time, because for example the local pronounciation that continued to evolve is for the former Aghwan, (but barbarians can't read, and the godlike greeks didn't write it as such) and one gets Iberia and Albania...


    BTW @Cohors_Evocata*feel free to quote this one too if you want, there was at least one guy asking about Caucasian Iberians and relations with the Iberians of the Mediterranean...
    Obviously Khevsur uses the Dené–Caucasian hypothesis or just a misunderstanding of comparative studies between Basque and Caucasian languages...
    Last edited by Cohors_Evocata; June 13, 2016 at 10:56 AM.
    I tend to edit my posts once or several times after writing and uploading them. Please keep this in mind when reading a recent post of mine. Also, should someone, for some unimaginable reason, wish to rep me, please add your username in the process, so I can at least know whom to be grateful towards.

    My thanks in advance.

  18. #38
    Outcast's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

    Your historian is mostly right and tell him/her they are quite knowledgeable about the region lol.

    As much as I'd like to see some early Georgian units in the game, there are very few sources on which we can actually rely and I personally don't think there would even be a 'name' for units even if we wanted to - other than something really generic. The only actual name for the warriors and the one kind of unit which definitely existed wouldve been the "Dashnit meomrebi" from the eb1, the long sword using guys with leather clothes - but from the eastern georgia, not west.

  19. #39
    Boogie Knight's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

    Very informative, thank you Cohors_Evocata. Funnily enough, as I'm just starting to learn French and reading about IPA I actually understood more of that than I would've done otherwise. Alphabets, phonemes, allophones, all that stuff... confusing as hell, but not *as* confusing as it would've been a week ago. Ancient Greek in particular looks/sounds like such a tricky - albeit rewarding - language to understand, so it's quite comforting to know people were getting it wrong in their own time. Thanks again.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Caucase Iberian ( Kartli ) and Colchian (Egrisi) units.

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    Last edited by Khevsur; November 09, 2019 at 06:19 PM.

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