Cohors, Legio and Comitasenses differences?

[lufc2806]

Hi,

Whats the difference historically between Cohors, Legio and comitasenses?

Thanks

[Aeratus]

Comitatenses was the generic term for mid-grade infantry units. There were three classes of troops in the late Roman army: Palatina (elite, highest quality), Comitatenses (regular army), and Limitanei (border troops, lowest quality).

Legio (legion) and Cohors (cohort) are terms that, strictly speaking, refer to unit sizes as opposed to unit quality. A legio can be palatina, comitatenses, or limitanei, and the term "legio" when used alone is ambiguous as to the quality of the unit. A legio comitatenses was a mid-grade legion, whereas a legio palatina was an elite-grade legion. The legio palatina units in the game are represented by "Palatina" units and named units such as the Herculani Seniores, which was a palatine legion.

However, the names of individual Cohors are not listed for Comitatenses units in the Notitia Dignitatum. Cohors are only listed for Limitanei units. So the game's usage of Cohors implies a type of unit that is of lower grade.

[Darios]

What was an "Eastern Armored Legio?"

I cringe everytime I see the word "eastern" in a Total War game.

[Aeratus]

Eastern Armored Legio was when they ran out of names to use even though they wanted the ERE to have a unit beyond Legio Comitatenses, but not the level of the Herculani.

And what's wrong with "Eastern"?

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Let me explain the difference in a nutshell:

Historically the Army was divided into technically two divisions: the Comitatenses and Limitanei. Of these, the Comitatenses had more social privleges and better tax breaks, but were not (supposed to be) higher quality than the Limitanei: they were about equal in quality until the 440's when the Empire began landing the Limitanei in order to save money. You also had the Auxilia Palatina, who were classified under Comitatenses technically.

In terms of organization, the Comitatenses were, barring the Auxilia Palatina, always organized into Legiones and Vexillationes. The Limitanei could be organized into a number of different unit sizes: Numeri, Cohortes, Legiones, Vexillationes, Cunei, Alae, and others.

The Eastern Empire was not necessarily better than the west militarily: granted it was more stable and had a larger military and economy, but three Roman field armies were wiped out fighting Attila in the 440's and they lost another field army to Gaiseric in 468. On the other hand, the Western Roman Army wasn't obliterated in combat but due to loss of funding. Also to look at is the fact the Eastern Roman Empire began landing the Limitanei so they could pay them less while the Western Roman Empire allowed their families to own lands but kept the Limitanei from performing other duties than their soldiering duties.

[Darios]

Eastern Armored Legio was when they ran out of names to use even though they wanted the ERE to have a unit beyond Legio Comitatenses, but not the level of the Herculani.

And what's wrong with "Eastern"?

CA has a nasty habit of orientalizing certain cultures (calling them eastern/making them look/sound exotic) to the point of ruining historical accuracy. "Eastern Armored Legio" is a buzzkill for what is otherwise a pretty decent Eastern Roman unit roster. As far as I am aware, once the term Comitatenses went out of style I think they started referring to their heavy infantry as Skoutatoi. Also, if CA wanted to go deep into the Tagmatic army it would have been nice for the ERE to get akritai in order to defend the frontiers.

In terms of organization, the Comitatenses were, barring the Auxilia Palatina, always organized into Legiones and Vexillationes. The Limitanei could be organized into a number of different unit sizes: Numeri, Cohortes, Legiones, Vexillationes, Cunei, Alae, and others.

Vexillationes became heavy cavalry regiments by the period of Maurikios right?

[stalker33]

Vexillationes became heavy cavalry regiments by the period of Maurikios right?

Cavarly units called as vexillationes existed since the late III century.

[Aeratus]

I don't like the Tagmatic units (Tagmata Cavalry, Hetaireia Guards) that the ERE get, because Tagmatic units came 300 years after the time period of TW Attila.

Eastern Armored Legio is an overly generic name, but at least it's not anachronistic.

[lufc2806]

Thanks guys

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Vexillatio means "regiment" or "detachment" and in the Early Principate usually referred to legionary infantry detachments, and began applying to cavalry detachments in the 2nd century AD.

Heavy Cavalry were called "Catafractarii" or "Clibanarii" and usually were organized into Vexillationes.

Also, I agree the Thematic and Tagmatic units are WAY out of context for this era. Then again almost everything in the game is, half the barbarians use viking or medieval equipment.

[Xipotec]

As far as i know is the distinction between Limitanei, Comitatenses and Palatina more along the line of Function and Location than Quality.

The Limitanei are fixed border troops. They are not supposed to leave the allocated province (landed) or even their Base or Town for a long time. They play a defensive Role and are under direct Imperial Command, not under the Command of the local Governor or Dux. They had the lowest Status in the army, much like the Auxillia in earlier days but since every citizen of the Empire became a Roman citizen there are no Auxillia troops anymore. The new Auxillia is called Foederati.

Training and Equipment should be equal to the Rest of the Army since they are citizens and there are reports that Limitanei went to Comitatenses Status and Pay when they joined a Field army.

The Comitatenses are the mobile Field army Troops. They are not bound to any region of the Empire and are under the command of the local legatus (Dux). They are the mobile Reaction Force that deals with any incursion too strong for the Border troops. They can be required to move from Gaul to Syria or Africa. What is probably the reason for the higher pay, they have to go where the hits the fan. These Comitatenses Legions are around a 1000 men strong …

The Palatina are Comitatenses Troops under the direct Command of the Emperor. The Palatina Legion is usually the largest Force of the whole army, maybe two or three Legions strong. They are not necessarily better Equipped than any other Legion … just better paid than any other formation to stay loyal. The System was established because of the large number of rival Emperors. Every Governor with some Legions under his command called himself emperor and marched on Rome. This way the Emperor has always the strongest force behind him, if it should happen again. But Since the Commander is only a Dux, a low Equestrian with no connections in Rome, the chance of that is very slim.

So all three types are Legion Troops of almost equal Quality but with different social Status and pay.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Not exactly. There's no evidence that Palatine legions were larger (Well... barring Onur's recent work in Perge but that's just one unit and only theorized to be a Palatine unit). The literary evidence says they were about the same size as the Comitatenses (around 1000 men).

A Dux was the commander of the Border troops in a region, and the Comes was the commander of the Comitatenses (or a Magister Militum, of course). The key was that the military and administration had been divided.

But Since the Commander is only a Dux, a low Equestrian with no connections in Rome, the chance of that is very slim.

Uh... no. You had to have spent a lot of time in the capital to be earmarked for offices/commands and also had to have connections to obtain a command like that.