Anyone ever have Integrity problems?

[PeonKing]

Has anyone actually suffered ill-effects from Integrity? It seems incredibly easily managed for me, even when I've been suffering from a cash and food deficit, I've never had integrity get closer than like 6-7 turns from a mutiny. Not that I want my armies revolting all the time, I just have never actually seen integrity come into question, even playing as horde factions.

[Pheidippides]

Has anyone actually suffered ill-effects from Integrity? It seems incredibly easily managed for me, even when I've been suffering from a cash and food deficit, I've never had integrity get closer than like 6-7 turns from a mutiny. Not that I want my armies revolting all the time, I just have never actually seen integrity come into question, even playing as horde factions.

In the early game I've had integrity problems but only with smaller armies that aren't fighting. Field armies either win (gaining integrity) or get utterly destroyed.

[Bramborough]

Same here...I've had no Integrity problems.

That said, I play pretty conservatively; avoid likely losing battles, armies mostly stay in my own territory (either because they're defensive, or because "foreign" territory doesn't stay that way very long after I move into it), tend to fortify and not move during winter, etc.

If I took a horde on a long raid through Roman lands, might be a different story; I haven't tried a long-distance Migrator game yet...which really might've been the situation where Integrity was intended to come into play.

[Ozymandias Maximus]

I've never had any problems with it. In fact, it's something I stopped looking at it. I just pay attention to loyalty.

[Sebidee]

I had one army rebel because of it. However it was in the early game, with a famine, in enemy territory, with a bad general and after a defeat with heavy losses. It was basically a perfect storm and something that would probably happen extremely rarely.

Would really like to see integrity be a bigger factor. I think the first step would be in removing all of the integrity bonuses that army traditions and generals have. The bonuses are much too over powered and pretty much remove the feature from the game.

[Slaists]

Theoretically, AI agents can wreck integrity of armies pretty bad. They just tend not to use that sabotage option.

[jtfjtfjtf]

Only if I build armies to march out far away with inexperienced generals. Integrity would drop for a few armies doing that in my Sassanid campaign. But overall integrity hasn't been a problem. I've never had to decimate an army to restore integrity.

[miTo82]

Same here… never had integrity problems (sometimes in the beginning when the army is not that strong and you have a lot of casualties in the first few battles) or my armies never revolt.

So I tried to create a little modification for myself to increase the integrity penalties to make this part of the game a little bit more interesting.

I found the values in the data.pack file and can change the following things:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

military_force_morale_attrition -5
military_force_morale_bankruptcy -5
military_force_morale_battle_lost_turns 1
military_force_morale_battle_won 10
military_force_morale_battle_won_turns 1
military_force_morale_bettle_lost -15
military_force_morale_casualties_multiplier 0,15
military_force_morale_decimated 30
military_force_morale_decimated_turns 1
military_force_morale_faction_leader_death -5
military_force_morale_faction_leader_death_turns 5
military_force_morale_foriegn_soil -1
military_force_morale_idle 1
military_force_morale_kings_own 1
military_force_morale_looted_settlement_base 10
military_force_morale_looted_settlement_multiplier 500
military_force_morale_looted_settlement_turns 1
military_force_morale_low_level 20
military_force_morale_raiding 5
military_force_morale_released_captives_turns 3
military_force_morale_starting_value 50
military_force_morale_transfer_penalty_turns 5

So it is easy to change these values to make the integrity more important and challenging. I thought about giving heavier penalties when the army is idling and whet it is in enemy territory. So when the army just standing there the soldiers gets bored and start to revolt really quick. The only thing to counteract this is to fight (and win), loot, sack and raid (and I hope the AI will play more aggressive then, just to counteract their armies to revolt).

But I don’t know how to adjust the different values, because its not easy for me to find a good balancing… so if you have some good ideas, let me know =)

And the other problem I see is for the horde factions. When the integrity penalties are is too heavy, the only way they will have is to fight. I am not sure if this will mess up the horde gameplay…

[Sebidee]

Milo, what table were those values in?

[miTo82]

I found them in data.pack\db\campaign_variables_tables\campaign_variables

I listed the ones what I think they have to do with the integrity. Maybe there are some more, I dont know.

[Sebidee]

Brilliant. Thank you.

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

I am surprised there is no penalty for losing the general, or him being replaced. It would make it more difficult to get rid of unloyal generals if this was the case.
When Stilicho was executed his army mutinied joined the Visigoths and sacked Rome.

[Sebidee]

I am surprised there is no penalty for losing the general, or him being replaced. It would make it more difficult to get rid of unloyal generals if this was the case.
When Stilicho was executed his army mutinied joined the Visigoths and sacked Rome.

Actually there is. Generals can skill up to give integrity bonuses. Remove the general and you remove the bonus.

[Aenima]

Actually there is. Generals can skill up to give integrity bonuses. Remove the general and you remove the bonus.

That's not so much an integrity penalty as it is just a removal of a bonus, though. What I believe he's after is for the troops to actually be angry at losing their beloved general vs the general just not giving them an integrity bonus.

And on that note I don't think I've ever had any real integrity issues. In early play-throughs when I had no idea what I was doing I had a few close-to-mutiny cases, but otherwise I manage to stay pretty well on top of things. What happens when the army mutinies? Instant defection to your rebel faction?

[miTo82]

Brilliant. Thank you.

You are welcome =)

If you are planning a small modification it would be awesome when you can share it with us. I tried starting to adjust the values a little bit, but not find a good balancing.

[Sebidee]

Then it could be tied into family politics with influential generals being more popular with the troops, that would be great.

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

Then it could be tied into family politics with influential generals being more popular with the troops, that would be great.

Yes but this still presents the problem that it is too easy to get rid of an unloyal or bad general. I mean disloyal generals should have a chance to outright revolt if you try to dismiss them in my opinion. I doubt CA will ever get round to it tho.

[Sebidee]

Yes but this still presents the problem that it is too easy to get rid of an unloyal or bad general. I mean disloyal generals should have a chance to outright revolt if you try to dismiss them in my opinion. I doubt CA will ever get round to it tho.

Yes, they should have a chance to revolt if you dismiss them.

[raven63]

Yes, they should have a chance to revolt if you dismiss them.

Before the game was released I suggested this on the official forum and got shot down like a duck in duck hunting season.

[evenflowjimbo]

Great. Right after I read this thread and played my game, I'm starting to get low integrity in most my armies. It's from the food shortage of which I don't know how to contain.