AI not resettling razed settlements

[Pheidippides]

ERE game around 430. Defeated the Sassanids by razing a lot of settlements and then puppeting their last settlement- that was around 407. Since then, none of the AI factions in the area have tried to resettle the razed settlements despite the fact we've had a Pax Romana in the east for 20 years. This includes one province in Armenia even though I gave Armenia like 10K gold for a couple turns to see if that did anything.

Similarly, rebels razed several resource settlements in Spain and Gaul. 15 years later, WRE still hasn't resettled.

I can understand if the steppes or Dacia aren't resettled since the Huns would just destroy it anyway, but can anyone confirm that the settled factions resettle desolate regions. Oddly, I had a v. 1 game where factions seemed to resettle more often, maybe the patch broke something.

[lawandorder82]

Why should the ai do it if the player does not do it since in reality you burned everything and made the soil poor.

[Humble Warrior]

Why should the ai do it if the player does not do it since in reality you burned everything and made the soil poor.

That makes no sense at all. You should think before typing.

As to the main point. Yea, I notice the AI not resettling any razed places. I intend to resettle a couple as soon as my finances get there (which they nearly are), so I can complete my province.

[stevehoos]

Why should the ai do it if the player does not do it since in reality you burned everything and made the soil poor.

What?

[AnonMilwaukean]

For one, the WRE not resettling is usually because the WRE is in the process of being stamped-out... which is to say, how well were they doing in that campaign? Because the AI factions that tend to re-settle are typically ones that can afford to do so and/or don't have almost any wars going on, at least not near the resettled areas.

Secondly, what difficulty level was this? I found that on Normal that indeed the AI isn't as good at resettling, but even just one notch up (Hard) usually sees them resettle faster than I'd expect, with a faction often jumping in to claim razed territory.

I think difficulty level is probably the biggest factor as to why the AI resettles or doesn't resettle: on higher difficulty, they traditionally have gotten significant income boosts. So, it makes sense that on Hard and up I've seen them resettle pretty well, before and after the last patch, whereas when I started on Normal at release time it seemed like resettling was not frequent enough at all. Could just be me.

edit: Even on Hard, I do sometimes see swaths of the map that are barren by the mid-game. So, one has to bear in mind that sometimes other factors (having most factions in that area of the map in significant wars with each other) will sometimes negate the monetary bonus on harder levels. Plus, one thing I forgot to throw in is that the early successes or failures of the Huns often play into having lots of barren areas: the Huns can only sack or raze, so they tend to raze more often than any other factions. Hence, if the Huns do better than usual, the map starts looking more empty, whereas if they get held up in the years prior to Attila becoming king, then the map tends to be a bit more populated, at least until Attila ascends to the Hunnic throne.

Again, there are a variety of factors, of which difficulty level (and the bonus AI income that comes with it) is probably a big yet forgotten one.

[gregnaar]

I guess religion is a factor too for the AI, so if its religion is not really present, it wont resettle. But yesterday saw one of the northern germanic tribe resettling the marcomann capital one turn after i razed it.
For WRE, it doesnt provide any benefits to resettle, as they have too much corruption anyways, and loosing low income settlements, just makes the overall income higher. The problem is that they dont/cant really defend their best provinces, and run out of food because of the desolation.
I usually see one or two nordic faction to start migration, and usually the remaining one resettles the whole province, and by doing so solves the food issue, because I guess the others start to migrate because they run out of food.
So if a fation have a settlement and not threatened by immediate danger, they tend to resettle, but they are not doing it too often, and rarely do so in new provinces.

[Aeneas Veneratio]

I have seen the AI resettle settlements in Gaul. The thing stopping most AI factions from resettling razed provinces is probably the insane cost, I think the lowest I have had to pay was 12k.

[Pheidippides]

This was a VH. The WRE was actually doing quite well- had held on to all of Africa, all of Iberia except for those razed settlements, most of Gaul, and Italia. Illyria and Britain were its only losses and I've conquered Britain with my heir. Had several full-stack armies sitting on the border with the Huns. This was mostly due to me killing off hordes and going around puppeting all of Africa plus the Ostrogoths got killed off early.

Resource settlements are so valuable I can't imagine the AI would lose by resettling them, and all of these are in provinces that the AI already partially owns. For example, there's no reason for the WRE AI not to resettle the gold province in Gaul or the resource provinces in Iberia. The Sassanids burned one of the settlements in Armenia very early on in the war and despite Armenia owning the other 3 settlements they still haven't resettled.

This mechanic needs serious rebalancing- it needs to be cheaper and factions need to emerge after at least a few years of a settlement sitting dormant.

[barry12]

The aggressive Campaign AI mod has really done well at tackling this issue IMO. I rarely see razed regions staying empty for more than one or two turns these days.

The raze feature, coupled with the vanilla AI's refusal to recolonise, really does leave the map an empty desolate wasteland.

[Count von Orlok]

The worst thing in Attila is the devastated cities , in my campaign map (WRE-Hard)
almost 1/3 of the map is desolate. AI prefers sacking and razing than capturing , that must be change .

[Prof]

In my current campaign I hold 53 regions and all the AIs that are left hold about 40 regions combined...the rest has been razed.

But I have seen the AI resettle in desolate regions. It happened at least 3 times in my campaign. The year is 500 btw.

[Count von Orlok]

ΑΙ also abandon their cities very easily ( more devastated cities).

[Turumba]

I've seen the AI resettles. Hording franks resettled nearly whole of modern france, begun in Burgidala. Hispanics (subjugated) have resettle mauretania complete and a settlement in spain, begun in Tingis. Eastern seperatists (they asked for being my puppet state, i declined, Armenia said seemingly yes) and then they resettled basicly the whole former land of the Sassanids 8+ regions, begun Payttakaran. Western seperatist (not the bad ones, the normal once^^) resettled the province Narbonensis and region Elusa... and more resettling was going on...

I guess you can trigger it, by let a emerge faction have a settlement at the borders of razed land, subjugate them and dont set a war target. I got the feeling they roll a dice, when they are not threatened, if they go for resettling or army/buldings. Edit said: It could be a trait of the faction as well..)

Try and give feedback!

[GrimmCro]

I hate to keep repeating myself, I really do, but if AI had the need to occupy cities to get more income to pay for their stacks they would have to raze less, build and protect more. Two birds can be dealt with via single stone.

[PeonKing]

I hate to keep repeating myself, I really do, but if AI had the need to occupy cities to get more income to pay for their stacks they would have to raze less, build and protect more. Two birds can be dealt with via single stone.

I think you're jumping a few steps. I'm not sure if you played R2, but the AI was terrible at managing food a long time, I think it wasn't till like the 5th or 6th patch that the AI actually stopped starving itself when it got more than a few settlements. You're assuming that not only the AI can manage resources, that it can plan ahead and build a working empire around conquering new territory that would be beneficial instead. Basically what I'm saying, is that you're picking a very complicated solution to something that could be easily solved by just telling the AI to stop razing things so often, or telling it to resettle more often. That would be like saying 'hey my dog won't stop chewing on my shoes. I should teach my dog the importance of footwear to my life so it understands it that those shoes are valuable.' instead of just disciplining the dog every time you catch it chewing on the shoe until it stops.

I know, it's just patching a leaky hull, but if we are talking about this specific problem, there are easier solutions than redesigning the AI fundamentally. They've designed the AI to function on automatic economic boosts, so it's not that simple. Factions that are only 1-2 settlements large need to be able to threaten the player, it's already decently easy to outmaneuver the AI when you are evenly matched in terms of numbers, it becomes even easier of a 1 settlement large faction can only field 10 units. Seeing as how the AI doesn't do a great job with small army tactics, it's better at multitasking and catching you off guard when you're fighting full multi-stack battles. As in, I'm saying it's easier to beat the AI with 5 v 5 evenly matched units than it is 40 v 40 because it's good at multitasking.

[C.Maximus]

I may ahve to quit my Saxon campaign because it is becoming more desolate then the world in the walking dead.... all of Eastern Europe is leveled, half of western europe (all by the huns) and I had to march out and stop them somewhere in Germany... Nobody is resettling that land and well, There is me and my clients in the north... nothing around us and now the WRE is the power house in the south... but they have to march through no man's land to get to me....

[LestaT]

Maybe the pric to resettling should be lowered ? Any mods that this that and cause faction to resettle more ?

[Neige]

Maybe the pric to resettling should be lowered ? Any mods that this that and cause faction to resettle more ?

I know Radious almost halves the base cost. But I'm not sure if it's possible to make the AI more willing to resettle though. I honestly think simply removing razing for all AI factions (including hordes) is the best option for now.

[LestaT]

I know Radious almost halves the base cost. But I'm not sure if it's possible to make the AI more willing to resettle though. I honestly think simply removing razing for all AI factions (including hordes) is the best option for now.

It's actuallly in my opinion a valid and useful feature. Maybe I see if reducing the price a bit help.

[Prof]

I agree. It costs a little less than 10k to resettle with a full stack and if you bring less units it's barely affordable.