Sassanid campaign, a snorefest?

[Neige]

I have started several campaigns but never finished any of them because I wanted to wait for performance patches to roll out, but recently I've picked up my Sassanid campaign (H/H) and am currently on turn 47. I have to say that so far the campaign feels very boring and underwhelming. I've played 3 battles in total during all these turns.

To start off, the faction bonus is ridiculous, you get extremely wealthy extremely fast, I'm making nearly 50K every turn and 42K is from my 19 client states. I have level 3 towns almost everywhere and I'm about to research level 4. I'm buying the loyalty of all the small kingdoms because why not? I payed Gepids 35K just to break their puppet state status with Huns and a few turns later I will hopefully be able to buy their allegiance myself. There is very little incentive to be aggressive to your neighbors because it is impossible to make as much money by owning their territories as by having them pay the tribute. It wouldn't be so bad if Romans - the faction that we are in aggression with, would show at least some signs of, well, aggression. Sadly, they have no idea how to defend their settlements, let alone attack mine. I used my starting stacks (and a few extra stacks later on) to wipe all of ERE from the face of the earth. This consisted of a couple battles that I fought myself at the beginning of the war and countless autoresolve sieges where my stacks walked over the undefended garrisons one by one... which got old very fast by the way. I let my puppet states roll over Palestine, Egypt and the rest of the Roman southern territories while taking Anatolia for myself. When ERE had only a few settlements left, I moved my faction leader's stack close to Constantinople in hopes of an epic last stand battle, but the remainder of Roman forces including their faction leader immediately took to the seas giving up their capital without a fight... Turn 47, I'm surrounded by my puppet states, my coffers are swelling and I'm the strongest faction on the map. Which is funny considering I could afford to more than double the strength of my forces and I would still be making over 10K a turn. I'm preparing to attack the WRE but if that will involve as few battles as the war with ERE, I'm not sure I'll be interested in playing the campaign further.

Don't get me wrong, I love the campaign map, it looks amazing, the city building and family management are interesting enough. But when there are so few battles to break the monotony over such a long period of time, my interest will eventually fade. The CAI seems like it needs a lot of work as well as some nerfs to Sassanid faction bonus.

I'm also curious how much this problem is alleviated with mods since I haven't tried any of the more popular ones.

[AnonMilwaukean]

I haven't used mods yet, but I finished a Sassanid campaign on the same settings as you are on, and I have some advice:

Play past the minor victory. I went back after getting the initial minor vic, and found it more interesting at that point, as by then I needed to move even past Constantinopolis (which had been my furthest advance into Europe proper at the time of the minor victory).

Sassanids are all about going for the Divine Triumph/Victory. Minor victory is indeed a snooze-fest most the time, so long as you make sure not to have civil wars and so long as you remember to buy off your puppets from time to time (so they don't break away). But going past that point, you will need more combat to get what you want. Right now, minor victory as the Sassanids is incredibly easy, given how big you are at the start. And while they are easier than the rest as to winning the bigger victories, they are at least going to take more combat than you saw thus far to get past the minor vic.

Sassanids are also a really strange late-game side, roster-wise, so the later you play, the more unusual toys you get: grenade throwers, elephants (which are not nearly as common as they were in R2), Immortal Cavalry, etc. Sassanids are a lot of fun if you push past the minor vic... and you can always restart with them on tougher settings if need be.

Just IMO, though. And haven't used mods yet, so can't speak to that.

[MrHoon]

Whenever I start a sassanid campaign, I move every single Nomad faction inside the Sassanid borders and declare war on them through ESF editing
Makes for a fun and chaotic campaign but unfortunately I always lose within 50 turns.

Sassanids would be more interesting if random tribes started attacking you turn 1 but the lack of attackers makes for a boring campaign early on

[Aeratus]

I finished a Sassanid campaign on H/H all the way to divine triumph. It was pretty smooth sailing. However, if you play on higher difficulties, preventing your puppet states from rebelling can be extremely tedious.

Also, in terms of economy, the ERE is potentially more overpowered than the Sassanids. I'm at turn 50 on my ERE VH/VH campaign, and I make 100k profit per turn, probably 3 times higher than I what made on my H/H Sassanid campaign. However, the ERE is much harder to start.

[Generaal Van Heutsz]

I have started several campaigns but never finished any of them because I wanted to wait for performance patches to roll out, but recently I've picked up my Sassanid campaign (H/H) and am currently on turn 47. I have to say that so far the campaign feels very boring and underwhelming. I've played 3 battles in total during all these turns.

That's 3 battles more than I playing with the franks on n/n, by the time you have as many turns as I do you might actually see 4 battles, even 5 if you are lucky!

[AnonMilwaukean]

That's 3 battles more than I playing with the franks on n/n, by the time you have as many turns as I do you might actually see 4 battles, even 5 if you are lucky!

I'm not a big fan of the Barbarian Kingdoms. I don't find their abilities to be overly useful (converting is probably less necessary than you'd first think, given how many tribes in that area are of the same culture in many cases). Further, it's easy to go raid the WRE, gain a ton of money, and make nice with everyone around you, even on H/H. I found the sweet spot once in the WRE (right by Genoa), and raided it for thousands per turn and a huge diplo boost with the million factions that hate the WRE. And almost all of the Barbarian Kingdoms can easily do this with very little risk (harder as the Ostrogoths and Visigoths until you settle and no longer have to risk a horde to raid). Franks and Saxons are not too fun, as it seems they mostly expand a little, make tons of friends, and only really have a fight on their hands when the Huns appear in ridiculous numbers.

Problem with the Franks/Saxons/Alamanni/Langobards/Burgundians is that all of them make pretty easy friends if you go and raid the WRE... who often isn't even going to attack you over it as by turn 20 it seems the whole world is against them.

So far, the Huns are the least boring campaign. I love the Huns. They're very different from most campaigns, lately, and are all about using melee cavalry intelligently to get the enemy out of loose formation and allow your horse archers to start firing at packed bodies of troops. Feint, shoot, feint, shoot, and withdraw if out of ammo to do it all again. The Huns are constantly in positions where I have to actually play the battle out, as auto-calculate always assumes there will be no withdrawing and that suiciding your ranged troops is somehow smart.

Sassanids are fun, though, if you play long enough. I agree that even on H/H they are not that tough to get the better victories, but at least at that point you generally have to fight things out against the late-game rosters of the enemy factions. In the early going, though, human wave bulldozing is easy on auto-calculate.

[Generaal Van Heutsz]

I'm not a big fan of the Barbarian Kingdoms. I don't find their abilities to be overly useful (converting is probably less necessary than you'd first think, given how many tribes in that area are of the same culture in many cases).

Well if you invade into Gaul, the culture is gallo-roman. Anway I at least would have expected some raids by the nordic factions or the wre putting up a fight, or who knows even some gauls but we are all friends. Early on I joined the alamanni in their war against the vandals but the vandals disappeared to the iberian peninsula and offered me peace (the alamanni were already at peace with them too). Anyway I am at war with 5 factions atm but no one has even attempted anything

[RedGuard]

I think the fact that the ERE and Sassanids start out with a non-agression pact screws with the ai, that and the fact the ERE does this in nearly every campaign I've played:


EVen takening them over doesn't even seem to motivate them:

as you can see i completely conquered the ERE (with help from allies and the ostrogoths) in about 28 turns on normal.

the Eastern portion of the map needs some work, ie it needs to be almost completely re-thought

[nameless]

I think the fact that the ERE and Sassanids start out with a non-agression pact screws with the ai, that and the fact the ERE does this in nearly every campaign I've played:


EVen takening them over doesn't even seem to motivate them:

as you can see i completely conquered the ERE (with help from allies and the ostrogoths) in about 28 turns on normal.

the Eastern portion of the map needs some work, ie it needs to be almost completely re-thought

I dunno the patch seems to have done something different as the Roman Empires are a lot stronger.

When I played as the WRE on VH the ERE launched an all out assault on the Sassanids, literally neutering them and conquering several cities and focusing all of their forces in the east so I'm not sure what happened in your campaign.

[RedGuard]

I dunno the patch seems to have done something different as the Roman Empires are a lot stronger.

When I played as the WRE on VH the ERE launched an all out assault on the Sassanids, literally neutering them and conquering several cities and focusing all of their forces in the east so I'm not sure what happened in your campaign.

yeah of course. the old "its just you" excuse. if what I showed happens even 1% of the time its too much.

[xjlxking]

Yeah, I just played a Sassanid campaign. I stopped at 418. It is ridiculous. Like Redguard pointed out, ERE doesn't know how to move/use it troops, they hang out in the Mediterranean Sea. Your client states drag you into war with 3 enemies, who will also become your client states (getting all the client states needed for D/C/M victory. After that, ERE wont do anything to you, like even on Hard. All you have to do is build up and attack when you want. If you capture the ERE territory, you win. It's too easy, too boring, and having an empire that BIG at the end of the map having one threat which is the ERE that can't use it's armies, it's just dumb.

[barry12]

Oh what a surprise, more campaign AI complaints... tick tock CA.

[Caligula's_Horse]

The problem stems from three main reasons, two easily solvable, one not so much.
The first is that due to the way income works, an alliance of smaller factions is always going to be a lot stronger then one large faction; the solution to this would be to reduce base income for minor factions to the point they can barely field a full stack of basic troops, at least after they've paid dues to their overlord.

Second is the fact that the map cuts off at the Sassanian eastern front, essentially securing a flank that was historically quite vulnerable. As expanding the map is impractical, the obvious solution is to stick something nasty on the Sassanian's northern borders, ideally the so-called "white" Huns which historically raided the area at roughly the same time as the "black" Huns who invaded Europe.

Third and most difficult is the ERE's campaign AI. It would obviously need to be completely overhauled to work properly, which means we may never get a fix even with mods. Wars on multiple fronts combined with an extensive shoreline seem to cause the AI to loose all touch with reality, sending its legions off to look for the lost city of Atlantis among the waves.

[GeneralELucky]

I'd recommend downloading the Aggressive CAI mod. While it didn't stop the yellow tide from washing over the ERE, it did allow them to defend and counter-attack. As the WRE, the Huns and I (as mutual enemies, not allies) either conquered or pillaged the barbarians on the northern frontier, which allowed the ERE to reposition. Currently, eastern Anatolia has turned into a circa-WWI western Europe battlefield. It's kinda cool.

[Sherm]

Actually the stupid thing, is the fact that Sassanid is depicted as an healthy empire even if was an age of endemic problem for all the empires, the romans, the iranian, the gupta all reaching great territory, many bureaucracy, lots of problem, not weak foreign powers that can't be attacked to gain wealth. Sucks be a great empire during that time. And this is a reason why arabs won against both the Romans and the Persians with its pointless rivarly as empires with overextension problematic behaviour.

[SharpEyed]

Actually the stupid thing, is the fact that Sassanid is depicted as an healthy empire even if was an age of endemic problem for all the empires, the romans, the iranian, the gupta all reaching great territory, many bureaucracy, lots of problem, not weak foreign powers that can't be attacked to gain wealth. Sucks be a great empire during that time.

Yeah also their puppets are almost always "loyal" even thou their leader traits says the opposite..
And map doesnt go much beyond the Caspian sea, there would be other factions that would also deal with Sassanids and its puppets

[jorfik]

I'd love it if the campaign was tweaked a bit to have more threats to the Sassanids even just from the North if not the East. The Huns entirely avoid the Sassanid area of control which invariably results in the eastern portion of the map looking the same if you don't interfere.

Really I think some more Huns that spawn near the east and have beef with the Sassanids would help a lot. Or at least some hordes, maybe belligerent arabian tribes or something.

[SharpEyed]

I'd love it if the campaign was tweaked a bit to have more threats to the Sassanids even just from the North if not the East. The Huns entirely avoid the Sassanid area of control which invariably results in the eastern portion of the map looking the same if you don't interfere.

Really I think some more Huns that spawn near the east and have beef with the Sassanids would help a lot. Or at least some hordes, maybe belligerent arabian tribes or something.

Well Sabirs mostly being at war with Sassanids and its puppets but they cant do much against them without Huns and kinda 'Hun friendly' hordes (Magyars,Budinians etc, they cant settle also I guess)

Also there would be "White Huns" if map would be a little bigger and have "Turkistan"

[Neige]

What I really wish for the mid to late game is for a couple huge and powerful factions to rise. It's fine for the map to be so fragmented at the beginning but it gets stale when you're the only powerhouse left against countless small factions. The AI is just too slow with this: by the time they each take a piece of the Roman lands, you're already the most powerful faction on the map.

Then again if all factions are as bad at defending large empires as the Romans are, maybe that's a bad idea.

[crowe15]

Damn, they still haven't fixed this