Maps

[Spitfire -WONDERBOLT!]

I have two questions, one is it possible to move the maps Campaign and battle maps from ETW to NTW? I mean I know we couldn't include them in a mod, if CA didn't object SEGA would, but I was wondering if we might find a way to make an 1812 mod with a campaign map for america.

Further more, seige maps, would it be possible to create say, badajoz? The place was seiged three bloody times, so one might think if any city was to be inculded it would be this one? Yes? Is it possible to have more than a fort in a siege?

Thank you for answering, I am still very new at this!

[Steph]

Campaign map is not modable

[Spitfire -WONDERBOLT!]

At all? So you can't swap the map file for a map from empire?

I mean I know you yourself put a hell of alot of effort into the campaign map with no results, so i shall take you at your word on this! Your name carries respect round here, you ARE the man you hoped to be! (In the words of the NTW PFM)

[Steph]

You cannot change the regions, you cannot change the settlements and town, you cannot change border... Even changing slots in a settlement create unstable saves.
The only think which is relatively safe is replacing a unit by another

[Spitfire -WONDERBOLT!]

That's a bit of dud.

[edwardlego]

bummer, i rly hoped this was possible, could any1 explain why it is impossible?

[Steph]

Because we have no tools to edit the map, and the format is too complex and not documented, no one has been able to retro-engineer it so far.
Even things that seems simple like adding a slot to a city is not safe: there are probably some interaction between data somewhere which have not been identified, and it generates unstable games, with crash after many turns.

[edwardlego]

i assume the total war games use a similar format, so if they were to release a map editor for any of the total war games, we could edit ntw maps with it?

[Steph]

Wrong assumption. The format is similar, but not identical. There is enough difference to prevent that I think.

[edwardlego]

the reason why i would want a map editor is to create a map where the naval aspect of the game is the most important. is there any other way to accomplish this?

[Steph]

Sure. Raise a large amount of money, buy the game from CA, hire some good developpers, and have them correct the file format, and create an editor.

Maybe you should first define what "the naval aspect is the most important" means. What do you want to achieve exactly?

[Sirlion]

Creating a siege map is quite easy if we speak of custom maps. Just making the map takes a bit of time but it is fully moddable as far as battle maps are concerned.
campaign maps are not however. But you can change the trade routes, add new building slots to existing cities andd change virtually all graphic aspects. If one wanted to make a 1812 mod I would assume that the Italian campaign is the more suited. Change the supertexture with a map of North America, change the borders to match ideal regions from the settlements that are already there, and change names to them plus add new units. Thats it. Long and boring process but a "fake" new map can be created

[Steph]

Yes, but its not very safe unfortunatley. Just adding slots to cities can create unstable saved game and crash. Although it seems very simple.

[edwardlego]

Sure. Raise a large amount of money, buy the game from CA, hire some good developpers, and have them correct the file format, and create an editor.

Maybe you should first define what "the naval aspect is the most important" means. What do you want to achieve exactly?

even with mods, in a campaign 90% of the battles are land battles. i'd like it to be 90% naval battles, so a map with a lot more ports, most, if not all regions should have atleast one. a lot of detached land masses so you need navy to capture something, etc.

[Steph]

Play custom battles, and you can have 100% naval battles if you want .

The number of naval battles in the campaign will not change too much depending on the numer of ports. One port for each region coastal region is enough I think.

You'd get better result by reducing the cost and building time of ships, for AI and player have more, and so more reason to fight naval battles.

[Malcolm]

I was hoping that when they discovered how to mod the campaign map in Shogun II TW it would have made it possible to figure out NTW!

I even thought that since they can mod the map on Shogun 2, it would open up the door to whole host of new mods with all sorts of maps. I am not really sure why nothing came out apart from the one map including Korea?

Just a shame, if I were in CA/Sega you would think that it wouldn't be difficult to release a map editor/guide for NTW or S2TW now in 2015 as part of a total war collection deal to make a bit of money on games that are long past!

EDIT:

Here is an idea for CA if they are concerned about money...

Crowdfund an editor for S2TW (compatible with NTW as well?). Not only would they be able to raise the funds but they would show the modding community that they are happy to help increase the potential of mods at least eventually! Surely would then lead to a potential increase in sales of the older games as well? Its never going to happen though

[Steph]

They did not "discover" it, CA released a tool they made for Shogun, but they did not make before

[Malcolm]

Yeah that's what I meant. Is the tool impossible to use? Why aren't there loads of mods with varying campaign maps released?

[Steph]

Your first question answers the second I think.

[wangrin]

I was hoping that when they discovered how to mod the campaign map in Shogun II TW it would have made it possible to figure out NTW!

I even thought that since they can mod the map on Shogun 2, it would open up the door to whole host of new mods with all sorts of maps. I am not really sure why nothing came out apart from the one map including Korea?

Just a shame, if I were in CA/Sega you would think that it wouldn't be difficult to release a map editor/guide for NTW or S2TW now in 2015 as part of a total war collection deal to make a bit of money on games that are long past!

EDIT:

Here is an idea for CA if they are concerned about money...

Crowdfund an editor for S2TW (compatible with NTW as well?). Not only would they be able to raise the funds but they would show the modding community that they are happy to help increase the potential of mods at least eventually! Surely would then lead to a potential increase in sales of the older games as well? Its never going to happen though

First, no modder discovered how to mod the campaign map, it's CA that give us the Assembly Kit to mod Shogun II.
S2TW Assembly Kit contains Shogun 2 campaign map raw data (mostly .max files) and an exporter to convert raw data to a file format used by BoB to create in game data.

But CA will not update Assembly Kit nor will provide documents or informations for previous, they will only focus on the current game.
They have been perfectly clear about this during 2013 and 2014 Modding Summit.


Second, since ETW, Total War game use a new system of game engines.
This system allow to change some of the games engines instead of creating a whole new set from game to game.
This explains why ETW, NTW and S2TW can share some files, such as .rigid_model or cs2.parsed.
But the campaign map engine seriously evolve with Shogun 2. Moreover, nobody really investigate to compare S2TW and ETW or NTW campaign map structure.

The best effort make to understand how campaign work and can be modified can be fin here : [Resource] Guide to the ETW map
But all modifications, such as creating a new resource slot are unstable.

So, the only solution left is to dig into game file and try to understand how it work.
But only few peoples are able to do this because it need programming knowledge as well as the ability to understand hexadecimal data.
And the few peoples able to do this left the project.
End of the story.