Campaign strategy for Jutes/Viking factions?

[pratolano]

How should I be playing the Jutes, or Geats? (assuming it's similar)

As a fan of Vikings, I've been wanting to play as a Viking Forefather faction for a while and I've been drawn to the Jutes specifically (although the Geats get major points for the Beowulf tie-in.) I like the Huscarl thing and the fact that they historically invaded Britain along with the Angles and Saxons.

Starting out in a grand campaign, what long-term strategies should I be using?

Diplomatically, I'm inclined to build up relations with the Geats and Danes. Should I be kicking them out of Scandza instead? Destroy the unfriendly Angles?

After reading many forum posts, it seems there are two parallel courses I could take which may be mutually disjoint in the early/mid campaign: 1) become a raiding sea power or 2) become a land power, rushing Huscarls for main line infantry.

Is it a good idea to build up income by rushing the tech for Heavy Marauders and pairing them with some bow ships and an artillery ship, then hit sea ports/unwalled towns owned by the WRE in Britain, Spain and Gaul - perhaps even the Mediterranean? (seems like the Viking way!) Or is it better to rely mainly on regular infantry, sacking or looting & occupying those same regions? Or perhaps head for Britain with the majority of my forces, building it up and expanding from there?

Lots of questions - there's just so many choices, which I love. I suppose the same strategies could be used by any of the Nordic factions.

Thanks!

[Slaists]

When I played as Geats (before patch 1.2 that is) I killed Jutes and Danes on turns 1 and 3 respectively. Having that starting province whole helps since you need lots of buildings to get most out of your roster (the province also can give you more than 10K income if built up well). After that, I went for an outright conquest of Britain.

Geats get snow immunity trait which helps a lot if they stay in the North. Geat snow immunity is probably the best faction trait of all the Norsemen factions.

Ironically, the North is least affected by the continuous fertility drops that the game administers. Fertility in the North is low to being with so, it has only so little to go down further. From that point - it's fixed. If you learn to balance your food and economy in those low fertility regions, you're set for the campaign.

[pratolano]

Thanks - I thought about playing Geats instead, and will at least play them in a following campaign. I haven't seen the winter/climate change hit in any of my campaigns yet as I haven't played too far in, but that's a good point.

Aside from that, is it better to be seafaring Vikings who raid trade routes and pounce on port settlements who have garrison armies, or should I stick to land and focus on territorial expansion?

[Slaists]

Thanks - I thought about playing Geats instead, and will at least play them in a following campaign. I haven't seen the winter/climate change hit in any of my campaigns yet as I haven't played too far in, but that's a good point.

Aside from that, is it better to be seafaring Vikings who raid trade routes and pounce on port settlements who have garrison armies, or should I stick to land and focus on territorial expansion?

As vikings, you won't find much trade routes to raid as the global trade system goes to hell when everyone attacks WRE; not any that would pay for the upkeep of your fleet. There are some that might survive in the Mediterranean but it's a log way to there and you need to pay the upkeep for that fleet. Also, when you raid a naval trade route you might end up in a situation of raiding your own trade or the one of your allies (while pissing the latter off). On land, there are two trade-routes that tend to stay worthy of raiding for a while: the one leading from WRE ports to Mediolanum (I've seen it have 20K turnover at times) and the one leading to Csesiphon (Sassanid capital). As vikings, you won't have easy access to either though. Most likely, the Roman one will be destroyed when Vikings get there.

Plundering coastal towns is a viable option though. All you need is some viking raiders + some artillery boats. Instead of sacking, practice sacking + occupy as this will allow you to replenish your lost crew faster and you can train fresh ships if needed (you can train your ships in all ports: culture does not matter). More importantly, capturing a settlement allows you to destroy buildings which gives you more cash than sacking itself. So, stay a turn, replenish fleet, move on; let the former owner or someone else for that matter take the settlement. Destroy buildings in the interim.

You can abandon too if you wish, but that will cost you heavily in PO.

[pratolano]

Great. Thanks!!

When you mentioned viking raiders + some artillery boats, do you mean the Viking Raiders that are recruited from Farmstead > Pastures > Livestock Herd + Manoral Lands tech? I haven't tried them yet. Should I pair them with the "Nordic Heavy Marauders" ship unit while sacking + occupying ports, or is one or the other good enough?

Long term, is there a point in the campaign where I should raiding less and building an army + expanding outward from Scandza instead?

Finally, between Geats and Jutes, is there much of a difference besides winter immunity for Geats and Huscarls/Royal Huscarls for Jutes?

Thanks for answering my questions - the playstyle of these factions is so different (or can be) from what I'm used to - slow empire building as Rome for example - and I find it very exciting.

[Slaists]

Great. Thanks!!

When you mentioned viking raiders + some artillery boats, do you mean the Viking Raiders that are recruited from Farmstead > Pastures > Livestock Herd + Manoral Lands tech? I haven't tried them yet. Should I pair them with the "Nordic Heavy Marauders" ship unit while sacking + occupying ports, or is one or the other good enough?

Long term, is there a point in the campaign where I should raiding less and building an army + expanding outward from Scandza instead?

Finally, between Geats and Jutes, is there much of a difference besides winter immunity for Geats and Huscarls/Royal Huscarls for Jutes?

Thanks for answering my questions - the playstyle of these factions is so different (or can be) from what I'm used to - slow empire building as Rome for example - and I find it very exciting.

No, not the ones from the farms. I meant the marauders you get from ports. Usually, the admiral + a few of the lower tier marine marauders + artillery ships are enough for a coastal town sacking party; can add one Nordic Heavy Marauder ship for an extra bang, but it will cost you.

Raiders from the farms will slow your fleet down (transports have less move points on water); at times however, I sacrifice the fleet move points by combining a fleet with a general + 2 cav units (mercenaries will do). Cav helps in dealing with garrison archer units as cav units transported by the sea get deployed on land in combined battles automatically now.

All units for Geats get snow immunity (no attrition in winter: you can walk around with your armies at will). Jutes don't get that.

[miTo82]

No, not the ones from the farms. I meant the marauders you get from ports. Usually, the admiral + a few of the lower tier marine marauders + artillery ships are enough for a coastal town sacking party; can add one Nordic Heavy Marauder ship for an extra bang, but it will cost you.

When you do this, do you have to play the battles by your own or does this work with automatic battles too.

The reason is, that I dont like to play battles in towns/cities and I hate naval fights too. And for this method of earning money (or just tease/bother the enemy), both aversions come together...


BTT:
I played two campaigns with the viking factions so far. One with the Jutes in Singleplayer, one with the Geats in Coop-Mode. Both factions can be played very similar and the unit roster is the same (except the [Royal] Huscarls for the Jutes). As someone mentioned before I think the Geat faction trait is one of the best, expecially when you play more in the north. On the other hand, you can get a very strong Infantry unit quite early in the game with the Jutes.

I had a little bit more fun with the Jutes. It felt more “unique” to me, because of the Huscarls. The only nice thing with the Geats is, that you don’t have to care about the snow attrition (and the start is a little bit easier because you don’t have to conquer a city).

The first steps I made in both campaigns was to conquer the whole province of Scandza very fast. As the Geats I took the Danes out first. After a couple of rounds the Jutes mostly move their main army to northern France/Britain and let their hometown unprotected, so it is very easy to take (and the Jutes become migrators then). After that I conquered Gothiscandza (at least the two cities harbors). When you have done this you can have 5(!!!) trading harbors within the first couple of years, what give you a very high budget to recruit strong armies and build up important buildings. After a while, when I managed my economy a little bit, I changed the trading harbors one by one to fishing (because the high tier buildings for your strong infantry need all a lot of food).

[Slaists]

When you do this, do you have to play the battles by your own or does this work with automatic battles too.

The reason is, that I dont like to play battles in towns/cities and I hate naval fights too. And for this method of earning money (or just tease/bother the enemy), both aversions come together...


BTT:
I played two campaigns with the viking factions so far. One with the Jutes in Singleplayer, one with the Geats in Coop-Mode. Both factions can be played very similar and the unit roster is the same (except the [Royal] Huscarls for the Jutes). As someone mentioned before I think the Geat faction trait is one of the best, expecially when you play more in the north. On the other hand, you can get a very strong Infantry unit quite early in the game with the Jutes.

I had a little bit more fun with the Jutes. It felt more “unique” to me, because of the Huscarls. The only nice thing with the Geats is, that you don’t have to care about the snow attrition (and the start is a little bit easier because you don’t have to conquer a city).

The first steps I made in both campaigns was to conquer the whole province of Scandza very fast. As the Geats I took the Danes out first. After a couple of rounds the Jutes mostly move their main army to northern France/Britain and let their hometown unprotected, so it is very easy to take (and the Jutes become migrators then). After that I conquered Gothiscandza (at least the two cities harbors). When you have done this you can have 5(!!!) trading harbors within the first couple of years, what give you a very high budget to recruit strong armies and build up important buildings. After a while, when I managed my economy a little bit, I changed the trading harbors one by one to fishing (because the high tier buildings for your strong infantry need all a lot of food).

You can go automatic against garrisons too, but probably need a bigger fleet which means: a fleet that is more expensive to upkeep.

[Bramborough]

I'm sure there's any number of viable ways to play these guys. Just one way to skin the cat; a quick summary of my recent Geat campaign:

- Immediately took over Scandza in the first few turns.
- Cultivated good relations and trade with the north-easterly Germanic factions (Venedians, Rugians, Thuringians, etc). Most of these guys start reasonably friendly with the Geats.
- Took on Angles/Saxons/Franks, consolidated Frisia.
- Also slowly expanded into Gothiscandza, but that wasn't really part of the "strategy"; other factions simply kept picking up and migrating, leaving a vacuum.
- That was the extent of my continental expansion.
- Afterward, went across the water and fought the Celtic factions to take Britain (note, this was just before Celt DLC).
- With 6 provinces / 18 regions, I then focused on developing allies to increase region count. Knew the Huns would eventually come knocking at the door, and this core territory was quite defensible.
- Didn't maritime raid much...but not because I didn't want to. Much of Gaul was desolate, there was nothing to raid there (this would probably be a bit different now, as patch 2 scaled back early-game razing). And in any case, controlling Frisia/Scandza/Gothiscandza/Britain meant that vast majority of the non-Mediterranean ports were already mine, or at least allied. Not many mainland ports between the Rhine and the Pillars of Hercules.
- Instead, sent an army south by sea, then landed them to conventionally raid & sack in WRE-controlled northern Spain. Which proved to be spectacularly successful diplomacy-wise....since pretty much everybody is at war with WRE, military actions vs Romans zoomed them all up into the green. Getting military alliances became a cakewalk.
- Reached Minor Victory at about 120 turns...didn't pursue further because patch had just dropped and I was ready to play some other faction.

Miscellaneous comments:

- For food, go with fish (lots of ports in those three northern provinces), granaries (which you need anyway for sanitation), fairgrounds, and goats. Combined with the Geat snow immunity, this makes climate changes (which occur at each major campaign chapter, i.e., 400AD, 420AD, 432AD, 445AD) irrelevant to you. Which they are anyway. As Slaists mentions, northern provinces start with dreadful fertility already; half of zero is still zero.
- Hirdmen (recruitable in Level III Warlord Keep) will probably provide the backbone of your army. Excellent unit for the upkeep price. I particularly like their Scare ability (several other Nordic units also scare, but they're more expensive); it's one thing to have a couple of units able to lay down a morale hit, it's quite another to have your entire battle line doing so.
- Norse Berserkers rock. They're very costly, but one per army is enough, and worth it. Judiciously evaluate the right time to send them in (because once they're fighting, they usually become uncontrollable, lol), and they'll win the battle for you almost single-handedly.
- By the way, don't burn a city slot on the Chieftain's Hold line; those structures can also be built in a town slot, whereas the other useful market/city-center buildings cannot.

With exception of the snow-immunity trait, pretty much all of the above would be equally applicable to Jutes/Danes, I would think. Or Saxons, for that matter, since they start in Frisia and also have a Nordic roster.

Edited: I originally thought that Hirdmen were Geat-specific units. They're not; all the pre-Viking factions have them (although the Nordic-roster Saxons do not). Still a great unit, imo.

[pratolano]

Fantastic. Thanks Bramborough! I will probably follow this general strategy as Jutes (or Geats? I go back and forth

I need to read up on the climate mechanic. I haven't seen it or paid attention to it yet in any of my relatively short campaigns but I've seen a lot of people mention it, so that might be a major point for Geats.

I wonder if the maritime raiding options are more plentiful now that the patch has reduced raiding.

[fokke85]

Played a campaign as the Jutes.. It feels to me they come out as best of the 3 viking factions. Danes faction trait is very cool but limited for obvious reasons. Geats snow attrition trait is one of the best in the game but you should not forget that as one of the other viking factions you can level up your armies pretty fast to the point that you are also immune to snow attrition which only leaves the +10 to morale when fighting in the snow. I'll take the 'gain money after each unit killed' trait from the Jutes over that every day of the week. Also the Jutes unique units (Huscarls & Royal Huscarls) rank among the best units in the game and are far more useful than Thrall Spears or those Danish ships.

First thing to do is rush to the tech which gives you the warlord's hold. Not only does it give you access to 2 powerful units which you will be using for most of the game (Hirdmen & Huscarls), It will also give you access to champions to boost your army and give you all the economic/public order buffs along the way since it is a civil tech. You can get this tech pretty early which gives you a huuuuge advantage over your enemy because hirdmen and huscarls own everything that has the words Nordic or Levy in front of them. And believe me you will be fighting those types of units for a long while after you've researched this tech.

Most of my armies consist of 3 lines. First line: cheap spearunits which I deploy in a spaghetti line to absorb missile fire. Second Line: Hirdmen, a decent meatshield (with scare ability along your whole line) They are there to absorb the bulk of the melee damage. Last Line: Huscarls + General, they are your heavy hitters, insane damage and even better charge bonus, once you bring them in it is usually over soon and do especially well against infantry (light, medium or heavy) with high AP damage which makes them excellent roman killers

The whole battle strategy basically revolves around your huscarls. 2 things to look out for though; First ranged units, they will destroy your huscarls that's why you bring a few spears to absorb the ranged fire. I found that you especially have to watch out for a few of the longbeards factions since scattershot slingers and those barbed skirmishers can really do some damage. The same can be said for the first crossbowmen. Second thing to watch out for is cavalry charges but this is less of a problem because by the time you encounter some decent horses in great numbers you will have better spears at your disposal. Just make sure these guys get a clean charge and you'll get your money's worth.

Some other notes, though this may apply to any campaign:
- Sanitation is more important than ever, make sure you have well's, dykes and granaries everywhere.
- Choose your king, what I did was find a very young family member, gave him my top army, seasoned him in war and granted him as much offices as possible before I declared him my rightful heir, this guys was an unstoppable beast!!!
- Early generals are useless, they have zero damage output and can die pretty soon if you don't babysit them well. You mainly use them for their general buffs so don't put them in harms way. Nordic Raid Leaders and Viking captains will do a lot better.
- Some good points to invest in your skill tree are the snow attrition one and the one which reduces fatigue by no less than 20%
- Since your armies will be infantry heavy, city sieges should not be much of a problem, make sure you have an (merc) onager for the towers and preferably use siege towers over ladders to protect your Huscarls from missile fire.
- I took Scandza, Gothiscandza and Frisia as my own and tried to create buffer states with the Langobards and Thuringians as my tribute states, after they kept rebelling against me I sacked and razed every settlement around me AI style, made for a pretty good buffer I suppose. After that I conquered the whole of Brittain. and from there I just started to raid, loot and sack my way around France, WRE, Spain and Northen Africa.

One of the most fun campaigns I've ever had.

[Bramborough]

Played a campaign as the Jutes.. It feels to me they come out as best of the 3 viking factions...[snip]...One of the most fun campaigns I've ever had.

Excellent writeup. Even having just had fun with Geats (with what sounds like an almost identical strategy), your post makes me want to go back and so it again with the Jutes.

[pratolano]

Can someone recommend a good build strategy for Scandza, and more or less future provinces I shall take like Gothiscandza, Frisia, Britain and beyond? Is there a good rule of thumb to follow? I've seen it suggested that you should build a Warlord's Hold for public order and the Hirdmen/Huscarls garrison in each town? (as well as a sanitation building like Wells etc .)

[Bramborough]

A number of different things you could do, and I'm sure others have managed better. But this Scandza build build worked pretty well for me as Geats. This is at Turn 130ish, Normal Difficulty, providing 9000+ gold at Normal tax level.



If you can't make out the icons (I still have a hard time with it, lol):

Capital:
Small City
Fishing Wharf (port slot)
Lumber Camp (resource line)
Fairground (city communal - market stall line)
Souterrain (sanitation line)
Mead Hall (city communal - meeting hall line)

Town:
Village
Fishing Wharf (port)
Dike (sanitation)
Chieftain Hold

Town:
Village
Fish (port)
Basket Weaver (industry line)
Dike (sanitation)

---------------

Notes:

1. Region is Infertile, but a 130 food surplus, and room to grow more by upgrading fishing ports & souterrain. Food sources completely independent of fertility. Alternatively, I could easily convert one of these ports to trading if I wanted.
2. Note that the port fishing-vs-money choice isn't quite as stark as in R2. Unlike predecessors, Attila fishing ports still provide a nice maritime commerce income.
3. One could go with Hall of Elders instead of Mead Hall; I did this in some other provinces.
4. There is no army here providing Military Presence PO buff. I do have a priest and edict, however. Without them, PO would be +10 rather than +20.

[pratolano]

Awesome! Thanks for sharing!!!