[REQUEST] Unit size increase

[kestraser]

Is fall of eagles going to include larger unit sizes at some point or will it always be 160 max?

[Maximus183]

Haven't really discussed it yet. I'm not sure we will be increasing units to the scale of DeI, since from most of what I've seen, at least, the scale and numbers in armies and battles wasn't as crazy as it was during the earlier ancient periods that Rome 2 is set in. For instance, Roman legions of this period weren't much bigger than a 1000 or so men. That being said, we might tweak the scale of some units here and there (levies and what not).

[kestraser]

Haven't really discussed it yet. I'm not sure we will be increasing units to the scale of DeI, since from most of what I've seen, at least, the scale and numbers in armies and battles wasn't as crazy as it was during the earlier ancient periods that Rome 2 is set in. For instance, Roman legions of this period weren't much bigger than a 1000 or so men. That being said, we might tweak the scale of some units here and there (levies and what not).

Yeah can't imagine the time period having massive battles. At the time of posting this I was used to using the Radious submod "Unit size Overhaul" and was testing out the battle system with fall of eagle (Love it btw the Morale and rate of death in a unit seems perfect for what I want) and saw the size of the units and was like oh...need to change that. BUT the way battles feel is so much better and now that you've mentioned the historical accuracy it seems more realistic to assume that armies were smaller.

[juanplay]

Please no, right now the game barely withstands a battle between 4 full armies (no matter how high your specs are) anything more and we would get that annoying lag that is not related to fps performance.

[Addario]

Can you make it optional if you decide to do it? I'd really like to have the DEI unit sizes. I play with radious 2x submod right now. Historical or not, it is much more fun. I'll keep my eyes on updates and submods.

[Maximus183]

We might make a submod later on with larger units unless we do it in the default version but I can't promise anything right now.

[Ahiga]

I wouldn't be averse to an increase in unit size as we all forget that you can just change the options setting to adjust how big your units are within that 'cap'. So if we raise unit sizes by lets say 40, it might become that Huge is 200 men, Large is 160. So anyone who doesn't want too large of a unit size can just scale down to large. All we'd really be doing is changing the scale of what people can choose.

Not sure I'd be down for DEI style "300 men in a unit" myself as Attila's performance demands plus how my system was chugging with that in R2 makes me dubious about it. But I like the idea of being able to have units around the size of 200-240.

[Cope]

I wouldn't be averse to an increase in unit size as we all forget that you can just change the options setting to adjust how big your units are within that 'cap'. So if we raise unit sizes by lets say 40, it might become that Huge is 200 men, Large is 160. So anyone who doesn't want too large of a unit size can just scale down to large. All we'd really be doing is changing the scale of what people can choose.

Not sure I'd be down for DEI style "300 men in a unit" myself as Attila's performance demands plus how my system was chugging with that in R2 makes me dubious about it. But I like the idea of being able to have units around the size of 200-240.

I agree with being conservative with regards to unit sizes if you ever decide to modify them, just because...lag lol.

[Maximus183]

Problem with doing that is that it affects naval units in a, well, undesired way. Take a small ship with a crew of 40 men on largest unit scale, which is relatively small, for example. You couldn't increase its size along with land units due to ship capacity etc, so when you then turn them down two or three steps in the settings, you'll have a naval unit of about 10-20 men vs 200 men land units. If you know ESF editing you can sort each unit out manually after recruitment I guess, but obviously that's not great.

[Troubleshooter]

Usually i am a big fan of bigger units but the game would crap itself on my computer if i had 4 stacks of huns attacking me, and each unit being 300 men.

However a size step higher, such as 200 men, would be quite awesome.

[Black9]

I'm going to chime in and say that while larger unit sizes are fun to look at, they just end up making more trouble than they're worth, in my opinion. In addition to the already mentioned computer spec issues and realistic army sizes, the modders have to spend likely hours manually editing every starting unit and garrison to meet the new sizes, naval battles get borked, and 40v40 battles get absolutely ridiculous. I support the push for vanilla unit sizes.

[Grizwald714]

I am usally all for bigger units but because of the time period with armies getting smaller then before and Attilas performance issues on older rigs and laptops I don't think unit sizes should be increased. Also as far as I know the transport problem still exists in Atillia which creates problems when a unit is to big for one transport ship and they need to use 2. If anything I can see maybe increasing the size of Levy units slightly to 200 men since If I remember right that's the max size of a transport ship.

If you want to adjust the unit sizes your self though it's really not that hard if you want to know how just pm me. If you want to change starting armies and garrision I can tell you how to do it as well but it will take a lot more work but it's not complicated it's just time consuming.

[Maximus183]

With Attila there's a whole load of new ships with different capacity than those in Rome 2. I suppose if we could find one that can hold 200 men from each culture it could work as a transport ship, although odds are the ship itself would be a high tier navy type ship.

[adambomb1]

I want the option of having larger units, I for one like the idea of units being able to make the size of ancient armies.

[Epirus Stronk]

I want the option of having larger units, I for one like the idea of units being able to make the size of ancient armies.

It would be cool to see this as an optional Submod. I wouldn't want to see this incorporated in the main game because, as said before, armies grew smaller during this period and later.

[Ahiga]

At least on land, not at sea, the unit size is increasing in the upcoming release. As of right now we're going with a breakdown generally like (on ultra) 240 men for levy/some low level barbars, 200-220 for infantry of the line, 160-180 for missile units, 100-120 for cavalry. If that is too large for you, you scale it down from ultra to large and I think last I experimented the ratios were close to vanilla (150-160 for the 200-220 guys, for instance).

[lilalex20]

At least on land, not at sea, the unit size is increasing in the upcoming release. As of right now we're going with a breakdown generally like (on ultra) 240 men for levy/some low level barbars, 200-220 for infantry of the line, 160-180 for missile units, 100-120 for cavalry. If that is too large for you, you scale it down from ultra to large and I think last I experimented the ratios were close to vanilla (150-160 for the 200-220 guys, for instance).

Gods imma need a new computer can't wait for the next update! Unrelated but shall y'all be fixing the invisagoths and invisa-vandles next update also?

[adambomb1]

I'm having to get a new faster computer for Star Citizens game coming out 2016 and also for Total War games so I can play Maximum graphics and unit size. I would sure like to be able to field a Real Size and type of units a Roman Army actually had, I would try to use the actual tactics that they used during that time period.

[TheGr8Apostate]

I could do a size unit sub mod for FoE that is like my culturally diverse unit size overhaul, if you guys want ..

[Friar Chris]

I hope unit sizes aren't changed. Two reasons:

1. In DeI and other mods, the engine doesn't seem to cope very well. Units don't just behave as larger or more resilient blocks, but actually exhibit some differences in behaviour due to the sheer mass the engine wasn't designed for. Strange circumstances which count as 'flanking' and 'rear attack' when no such thing has happened spring to mind.

2. Attila is horribly optimised relative even to Rome II. If you consider just how hard the DeI unit sizes hit Rome II performance, they would really condemn all but the highest-end systems on Attila to awful performance losses.


I think it's already mentioned as well, but historically many battles of this era weren't as large-scale or as conveniently pitched as ancient battles as far as I understand, so with the theme and period of the game the current unit sizes aren't horribly off.