Roman Rebels

[Krimdor]

First of all, sorry if there's already a thread like this but I couldn't find it for the love of it.

So playing as the WRE I noticed that everytime a province breaks into rebellion there's always Roman units in the Rebel armies.

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to have the region's local population (e.g. Celts in Britannia) revolt instead of Roman citizens taking up arms?
It's just a bit weird to fight Romans with Romans...

I guess it has to do withth replacement of culture with religion.
Maybe this can be modded in or changed otherwise?

[Humble Warrior]

It`s also possible that some of them are Roman or naturalised Roman citizens that have decided you`re making a mess of things and they can do better alone.

[crucify_ego]

First of all, sorry if there's already a thread like this but I couldn't find it for the love of it.

So playing as the WRE I noticed that everytime a province breaks into rebellion there's always Roman units in the Rebel armies.

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to have the region's local population (e.g. Celts in Britannia) revolt instead of Roman citizens taking up arms?
It's just a bit weird to fight Romans with Romans...

I guess it has to do withth replacement of culture with religion.
Maybe this can be modded in or changed otherwise?

As HW said, they are Roman citizens fella. So no, it shouldn't be modded or changed.

[Caligula's_Horse]

By the time the game starts, even Rome's later conquests have been under Roman rule for some 350+ years. They've all been Romanized, most of them quite thoroughly, and even provincial backwaters like Britain that saw little immigration were largely Roman culturally, in particular among the elites of society which are usually the ones leading rebellions (any successful ones, anyway; peasants typically lacked both the finance and military prowess to rebel successfully).

This isn't Caesar's day. The subjugated tribes who were willing to rebel at the drop of a hat are all long dissolved by now. Civilization will do that to you after a couple of centuries.

[Krimdor]

By the time the game starts, even Rome's later conquests have been under Roman rule for some 350+ years.

Didn't really think about that. Makes sense, case closed.

[Bramborough]

Another way to look at it is that these guys aren't necessarily rebelling against "Rome" itself, but rather against the current emperor. 3rd-to-5th centuries were riddled with lots of succession disputes, usurpers, local elites maintaining independence (sometimes for years, even well over a decade). In such cases, there was usually a sizable chunk of territory that was not under direct imperial control...but whose inhabitants, both elites and populace, continued to consider themselves thoroughly Roman. It was really only a question of whose piggy-bank happened to receive the collected taxes; otherwise society, culture, economy, etc remained the same.

[Aeratus]

Although those states show up in the rebellion process, they aren't really there to represent rebels. They are more there to represent remnant Roman States.

When the Romans withdrew from Britain, the local culture did remain primarily Roman for a time until Anglo-Saxon conquest. The celts were not locals anymore. They were actually rivals to the Romano-British groups that existed after the Romans withdrew from britain.

Gaul and Illyria had large Roman states that survived even when the Western Roman Empire collapsed. Illyria was ruled by a deposed Roman emperor until 480 (four years after the fall of the Western Empire). Northern Gaul was organized into an independent Roman-style state that lasted over 10 years after the fall of the western empire.

[Kraut and Tea]

I made a mod in which I modded the Dacia faction out of the game and replaced it with the "Demmetae" who have Celtic buildings, units, culture and generals and can emerge in Britania Supirior.

Wish CA had added more emergent faction but unfortunatly they chose not to.

Once the kit is released I will ad alot more rebel factions throughout the various regions in the game.

[wulfgar610]

Well the cities, educated men, etc would speak Latin. But Rural backwaters would be still be speaking their old languages. In Britain despite centuries of Roman domination the Welsh language prevailed. So either rebels with a native or a Latin ethic are possible. It would really depend on the leadership and allegiance of the rebellion. Roman Britain became independent and hierarchy were Latin and it was certainly the language of the cities. But later on the Welsh language becomes predominant after the cities were overthrown by invaders. Welsh became dominant in Brittany as well. I sure CA will bless us with a special rebels DLC at some point and all yours for the price of a McHappy meal! The Basques continued with thier pre Indo-European language. There was probably a host of others that disappeared with time. The Amoricans were still speaking Gaulic but that and Welsh were closely related languages. Oddly I believe the Latin and other Italic languages were closer to Celtic than say to Greek. Many parts of the Empire that were isolated were controlled by Bagaudae, it was simply easier to ignore them when their areas weren't worth much. The educated class of the East spoke Greek as their every language. It was not like today with mass eduction enforcing the state language.

The OT is most likely correct.

[Glycerius]

Well the cities, educated men, etc would speak Latin. But Rural backwaters would be still be speaking their old languages. In Britain despite centuries of Roman domination the Welsh language prevailed. So either rebels with a native or a Latin ethic are possible. It would really depend on the leadership and allegiance of the rebellion. Roman Britain became independent and hierarchy were Latin and it was certainly the language of the cities. But later on the Welsh language becomes predominant after the cities were overthrown by invaders. Welsh became dominant in Brittany as well. I sure CA will bless us with a special rebels DLC at some point and all yours for the price of a McHappy meal! The Basques continued with thier pre Indo-European language. There was probably a host of others that disappeared with time. The Amoricans were still speaking Gaulic but that and Welsh were closely related languages. Oddly I believe the Latin and other Italic languages were closer to Celtic than say to Greek. Many parts of the Empire that were isolated were controlled by Bagaudae, it was simply easier to ignore them when their areas weren't worth much. The educated class of the East spoke Greek as their every language. It was not like today with mass eduction enforcing the state language.

The OT is most likely correct.

Even the poorest parts of the Empire has tiles for a peasant's little cottage. Well composed, if crudely carved, tombstones continued to the composed in Wales long after substantial Roman withdrawal in the forth century. A sort of light horseman with a Roman style of helmet was much favoured in warfare. Even places where the people spoke limited Latin, maybe Punic or some Anatolian languages, Roman weapons and goods were ever present. OP is not correct. Regional rebels should be given some local variations, but they would not have made their own style of weapons with Roman gear everywhere. Latin remained the language of the Roman army until the end of the classical age. Even easterners speaking Greek or Syriac liked to give themselves Roman names and wear Roman dress. Most significant revolts against Rome were on behalf of usurpers and voiced their demands in Latin. There are little annoyances. Calling the rebels in Syria, Judean rebels is silly, when Palaestina or similar is the province. Bagaudae only existed in Gaul or Spain. They were largely peasants who became robbers and insurgents through discontent. Isolated areas were not capable of sustain armies peasant labourers. Minor warlords, say in Mauritania, also too in post Roman Wales, sometimes with aid from the fading Roman state. The OP is not correct.

There is a mod for fantasy pre-Roman rebels, if that is what he wants somewhere.