Huge city settlement siege leads to immediate CTD

Hi guys,

Recently I've taken it up myself to begin the long and possibly torturous process of modding the settlements for EB II, due to my dissatisfaction with the present battle map models (which are extremely undeveloped compared to even vanilla RTW cities, for instance). I've been fiddling around with the game to see what's available, and after running a test (using cheat commands with Shell), I found out that trying to siege a huge city leads to an immediate CTD! Cities are fine, large cities are fine, huge cities on the other hand, no, they don't seem to be even available in the "custom battle" options. However, they are clearly available on the campaign map and are included in the "descr_buildings.txt" file where it allows certain factions to build huge stone walls and hence huge cities (i.e. the "barbarian" and nomadic factions are unable to have this).

I have a couple questions about this. In the current game mechanics, is it even possible to reach huge city population levels without actively cheating? In my test I used the "add_population" cheat to bring a random city (i.e. Nikaia) up to huge city status within my Koinon Hellenon empire. I then used the "process_cq" cheat to immediately build a huge stone wall, then pulled my army out of the city, raised the taxes as high as they could go to cause unrest, and spent a couple turns watching it riot and finally rebel from my authority (i.e. joined the rebel slave faction). I then immediately laid siege to the city, spent a turn building siege equipment, and attempted to assault the city on the battle map. However, after repeating this attempt three times (just to make sure the first CTD wasn't a fluke), I came to the obvious conclusion after so many CTDs that huge cities aren't even supposed to be featured in the game. Otherwise, why would the game crash every time?

In any case, I really need to know about this stuff, because I certainly don't want to waste my time trying to edit a huge city model if it's not even going to show up on the battle map anyway.

This would be better in the bug report thread but thank you for reporting

Originally Posted by Josh Mahurin

This would be better in the bug report thread but thank you for reporting

Cheers. No problem. Since no one else has run into this, I'm just going to go ahead and assume that, bar cheating, it is IMPOSSIBLE to naturally raise the population of your cities to the point that they can be upgraded to a huge city with a huge stone wall.

And what did you do before using the cheats and besieging the city? What files did you modify? What's in the log?

Originally Posted by wudang_clown

And what did you do before using the cheats and besieging the city? What files did you modify? What's in the log?

I didn't modify any files. I just observed that the "huge stone wall" for "huge" level cities is available in the export_descr_buildings.txt file). Again, I simply raised the amount of population to whatever is the prerequisite for getting a huge city, did an instant construction of huge stone walls to make a huge city on the campaign map, and besieged it to see if anything would show up on the battle map. It was an instant CTD every time it tried to load the battle map. I repeated this a few times just to make sure it wasn't random CTDs. Go ahead and try it yourself; no doubt you'll see what I'm saying. I'm going to go ahead and assume this is because there is no model for the huge city in EB II (with the settlement models ported from Rhaymo's DBM mod). Otherwise it would show up on the "custom battle" map too, which it doesn't. When you select a huge city siege for the custom battle, it doesn't CTD, but it does take you to an empty field with no city for your battle.

Thanks for clarifying.

And what's in the log?

Originally Posted by wudang_clown

Thanks for clarifying.

And what's in the log?

I tried posting the entire log here in a spoiler tag, but apparently it's just too big! The entire "M2TW.system.log" file is about 14 MB. Is there some way I can copy and paste here the relevant parts of it that you need, without trying to share the whole whopping thing?

Make the game to CTD and paste here only the last twenty or so lines. That will be enough.

You can also compress it with 7-zip. Usually text files compress nicely, so you should be able to post it as an attachement.

Originally Posted by wudang_clown

Make the game to CTD and paste here only the last twenty or so lines. That will be enough.

You can also compress it with 7-zip. Usually text files compress nicely, so you should be able to post it as an attachement.

Alright then, here's the last lines of the log file:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Originally Posted by M2TW system log

11:09:14.659 [system.io] [trace] file open,,data/banners/main_cavalry.mesh,,not found
11:09:14.659 [system.io] [trace] pack open,packs/data_0.pack,data/banners/main_cavalry.mesh,59441
11:09:14.659 [system.io] [info] open: found data/banners/main_cavalry.mesh (from: packs/data_0.pack)
11:09:14.659 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/EBII/data/Banners/textures/faction_variations/f_kh/Faction_banner_england.texture
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11:09:14.660 [system.io] [trace] pack close,,data/banners/main_cavalry.mesh,,,-59441
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11:09:14.751 [system.rpt] [error] Medieval 2: Total War encountered an unspecified error and will now exit.

I hope this helps. However, "an unspecified error" isn't very helpful, is it? I'm not sure how much you're going glean from that. I basically did a similar thing as described in the OP, only this time I used a different city, Byzantion. I captured it as the Greek faction Koinon Hellenon, immediately upgraded the settlement to a huge city with a huge stone wall (by boosting the population to about 30,000 households), removed the garrison and raised taxes so that it would rebel against me, and then besieged it again. Just as before the game crashed to the desktop as soon as the pre-battle screen loading bar was about to be finished.

Just like the Medieval II mod De Bello Mundi (where EB II obtained its settlement models in the first place), the Greeks can't have a huge city because no battle map model for it actually exists. I'm going to go ahead and assume, through scripting and game mechanics, that it is basically impossible for any Greek faction in EB II to have a population of a single city reaching up to 30,000 households. If that is possible you should consider fixing the script so that this is impossible, because players might not know about this potential for a CTD.

I haven't tested this with the Romans yet, although strangely enough in De Bello Mundi they were able to have huge cities while the Greeks were not allowed to build them.

I did what you asked a while ago, Wudang_Clown, have you looked into this? Any progress on finding out what's going on? Are my hunches correct? Is there really no model for the huge city, just like with DBM?

I played a full Koinon Hellenon campaign recently and managed to get several cities up to huge city status naturally just by constructing certain buildings over time, like advanced agriculture, public works, and stuff like that to reduce squalor. If an enemy army were to besiege any of those cities, hypothetically the game would CTD every time! This is a problem that absolutely has to be fixed, for the sake of smooth gameplay if anything.

A simple solution to this problem, if you guys don't have time to make a huge city model before the next EB II release, would be to have huge cities on the campaign map, but on the battle map they appear just the same as large cities. How about that?

I've flagged this to the team, in the meantime, the package of updates z3n and I have been working on will have a temporary fix (removing the ability of Greek factions to get to Huge Cities), amongst a host of other bits.

In another thread z3n has basically stated that the problem has finally been addressed. Thanks for listening, though!

Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix

In another thread z3n has basically stated that the problem has finally been addressed. Thanks for listening, though!

That's what I'm talking about. It's been temporarily patched in z3n's edit, but hasn't been completely resolved in the current build, yet.

Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius

That's what I'm talking about. It's been temporarily patched in z3n's edit, but hasn't been completely resolved in the current build, yet.

Ah! I see. You know, I'm not even 100% sure about other cultures either, Eastern Greek, Roman, and Eastern. I'm pretty sure they're capable of making huge cities too, although I think the barbarian factions are only allowed to build up to the large city level. You guys should definitely look into other cultures besides Western Greeks and run some similar tests.

Hello? Anyone home? Has anyone checked on Eastern Greek, Roman, and Eastern cultures and if they also crash immediately to the desktop when trying to load a huge city?

Well, I guess if you want anything done, you have to do it yourself.

UPDATE, EDIT: Yep! It's just as I suspected. The Eastern Greeks have no huge city model either, so the game immediately crashes to desktop. I'm not sure how this was never noticed before when you guys released EB II back in September 2014. I'm assuming that not enough test runs of the game were made in order to spot this problem. I'm also assuming that there was a lack or even complete breakdown in communication between those porting the DBM city models and those developing the rest of the mod, including the person who allowed for huge cities in the buildings txt file. On top of that, someone bothered making a campaign map models for huge cities of every culture, all the while knowing or not knowing that huge cities didn't actually work on the battlefield map at all! For any culture! It's not just the Western Greek cultural factions you need to stop from being able to produce huge cities, it is every single faction of every culture period.

Simply open the data\settlement folder and then check the [culture]\settlements\huge_city folders. If they do not contain a full set of files like the cul_2\huge_city folder then you can assume it will crash.

{CUL_1}Western Greek
{CUL_2}Roman
{CUL_3}Eastern Greek
{CUL_4}Eastern
{CUL_5}Barbarian
{CUL_6}Nomadic
{CUL_7}Semitic

cul_1, cul_3, cul_5, cul_6 and cul_7 all lack a full set of files.

So basically everyone apart from Roman or Eastern.

I got the same problem when Seleukids besieged Antioch. Can anyone direct me to a bug fix?

Originally Posted by Zly Duh

I got the same problem when Seleukids besieged Antioch. Can anyone direct me to a bug fix?

All we can do for the time being is lock them out in the export_descr_buildings.txt - but that won't be a savegame compatible change.

Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius

All we can do for the time being is lock them out in the export_descr_buildings.txt - but that won't be a savegame compatible change.

Ah, that sucks. I have quite a few huge cities now, and cannot defend them unless I put the whole stack in them. Well hopefully it will be fixed in the summer release of EBII?