United Against Us

[Darios]

Doesn't this seem to happen more or less anytime you're at war with someone? In my ERE campaign I am in the year 467 and I have constantly been feeding the Huns money in order to build friendship with them....we even managed to wipe out half of the Sassanid Empire. My war against the Anteans is going wonderfully then all of a sudden the Anteans managed to get the Huns to declare war on me. The Huns had three hordes outside of Nicomedia so they attack and raze it. I assume that I'll manage to eventually find a way to kill them but the way this mechanic work is so illogical that it's really annoying.

The same happened during my Burgundian campaign. I was putting down a rebellion near Rugion and all of a sudden the rebels managed to turn my Saxon allies against me.

Seems to me another feature CA added to the game in order to make it "badass" and difficult beyond the point of logic. What's the point of building up good diplomatic relations with someone if I know that they are likely to turn on me at the drop of a pen?

[=ANTiKES=]

If they were considered to be untrustworthy such irrational behaviour would have made sense though..

@c1h4d (post 3)
I'm talking about character traits of their leaders. A good example are the many different roman emperors which varied from good rulers to insane ones. So trying to have relations with a crazy or untrustworthy person would be way more difficult as long as they're alive. But that's ofc not part of the game

[SharpEyed]

(..)

@c1h4d (post 3)
I'm talking about character traits of their leaders. A good example are the many different roman emperors which varied from good rulers to insane ones. So trying to have relations with a crazy or untrustworthy person would be way more difficult as long as they're alive. But that's ofc not part of the game

I've just seen this, would be better if u posted a new reply

Well tbh traits of Leaders isnt the reason of broken Diplomacy, I have seen "Admires Huns" trait on some leader (when im Huns) but they wont accept any treaty still.
Even there is no hostility between, friendly or neutral, doesnt matter, Diplomacy is broken.

The player and the WRE

If I own 3 regions, I already get -75 with most factons for "great power". Just researching a few technololgies make you a haterd empire now. But if the Marcomanni own 12 regions, they get -30, if all.

And yeah, they all fight to the end. The last few TW's were better in this regard, the AI knew when it was beaten.
It's also pretty extreme how factions let themselves invite to got to war with you, which causes a chain reaction of dow's-

and ERE too, yea I forgot

About Great power, well I got it lowered a bit by mod but its not the only problem, there is some back ground system/s killing the game as I said above, and Telennil confirmed me..

Yea in previous TW they knew when they were beaten surely. And small factions -like u can kill them off in a turn or so- wouldnt declare war on u weirdly..
Just to make game harder they messed all up, diplomacy is broken, AI is broken, but game has a big potential if all these get fixed!

[SharpEyed]

Doesn't this seem to happen more or less anytime you're at war with someone? In my ERE campaign I am in the year 467 and I have constantly been feeding the Huns money in order to build friendship with them....we even managed to wipe out half of the Sassanid Empire. My war against the Anteans is going wonderfully then all of a sudden the Anteans managed to get the Huns to declare war on me. The Huns had three hordes outside of Nicomedia so they attack and raze it. I assume that I'll manage to eventually find a way to kill them but the way this mechanic work is so illogical that it's really annoying.

The same happened during my Burgundian campaign. I was putting down a rebellion near Rugion and all of a sudden the rebels managed to turn my Saxon allies against me.

Seems to me another feature CA added to the game in order to make it "badass" and difficult beyond the point of logic. What's the point of building up good diplomatic relations with someone if I know that they are likely to turn on me at the drop of a pen?

This is a general problem happens to almost every1 I believe, and I agree with u it aint make any sense.

And what about the tributary states declaring war against u while they dont stand ANY chance AT ALL (while u are near to their city Also!)
No matter they have ally or not, i loaded to last save again and again few times and they did the same thing, so game AI is trying to make us losing some time from our other plans?!

If this was the plan of CA, its not fun.

Game is slow and boring enough already... -not always but mostly-

If they were considered to be untrustworthy such irrational behaviour would have made sense though..

nah this doesnt have anything to do with that.

[Kraut and Tea]

There are campaign in which I want everyone to be against me. Like the WRE, the ERE and the Huns.

When I play as some faction I want certain factions to also be against me. The Saxons should hate the Celts and the Celts should hate the Saxons. When I play as the Sassanids the Arabs should hate me. When playing as the Vandals the North Africans should hate me. And when playing as a Viking the germanic Kingdoms and Celts should also hate me.

But right now everyone seems to hate everyone once a faction has more than 2 or 3 settlements.

[SharpEyed]

There are campaign in which I want everyone to be against me. Like the WRE, the ERE and the Huns.

When I play as some faction I want certain factions to also be against me. The Saxons should hate the Celts and the Celts should hate the Saxons. When I play as the Sassanids the Arabs should hate me. When playing as the Vandals the North Africans should hate me. And when playing as a Viking the germanic Kingdoms and Celts should also hate me.

I agree, especially with Sassanids vs its puppets part.

But right now everyone seems to hate everyone once a faction has more than 2 or 3 settlements.

Not everyone, they all just hate the player, and not accept any treaty, especially peace and non-agression one. no matter having green face too

Hope new patch helps a bit at least. And hope mod tools come very soon and then we can see some real changes.

[Candy_Licker]

I agree, especially with Sassanids vs its puppets part.



Not everyone, they all just hate the player, and not accept any treaty, especially peace and non-agression one. no matter having green face too

Hope new patch helps a bit at least. And hope mod tools come very soon and then we can see some real changes.

The player and the WRE

If I own 3 regions, I already get -75 with most factons for "great power". Just researching a few technololgies makes you a hated empire now. But if the AI Marcomanni own 12 regions, they get -30, if all.

And yeah, they all fight to the end. The last few TW's were better in this regard, the AI knew when it was beaten.
It's also pretty extreme how factions let themselves invite to go to war with you, which causes a chain reaction of dow's-

I guess CA realized the complaints that end game was boring/ no challenge in RII (more like the complete game) so they created another Realm Divide for challenge. Pretty enjoyable that you can throw diplomacy out of the window by early mid game

[Darios]

There are campaign in which I want everyone to be against me. Like the WRE, the ERE and the Huns.

When I play as some faction I want certain factions to also be against me. The Saxons should hate the Celts and the Celts should hate the Saxons. When I play as the Sassanids the Arabs should hate me. When playing as the Vandals the North Africans should hate me. And when playing as a Viking the germanic Kingdoms and Celts should also hate me.

But right now everyone seems to hate everyone once a faction has more than 2 or 3 settlements.

Yes, I have no issue with certain factions being at war with me but there is no logic in what the CAI is doing at moment. As the ERE, I have fought major wars against Roman Successor states (Africa, Illyria, Italia, WRE Separatists, Egypt, etc) that you would think would prefer to cozy up to the Emperor in Constantinople for his recognition (think Julius Nepos in Illyria or the Domain of Soissons) instead of making hopeless war against him. When I play campaigns with other factions, I notice that the ERE and the Roman Successor states are all best friends, teaming up against me.

It seems to me that CA simply created AI that is designed to indiscriminately target the human player in the hope of making a difficult game. As a result, they simply created an illogical and tedious game that's not fun to play at all. There is no point in building alliances or subjugating other factions because as sure as the Sun will rise in the East they will betray you.

[Kraut and Tea]

Yes, I have no issue with certain factions being at war with me but there is no logic in what the CAI is doing at moment. As the ERE, I have fought major wars against Roman Successor states (Africa, Illyria, Italia, WRE Separatists, Egypt, etc) that you would think would prefer to cozy up to the Emperor in Constantinople for his recognition (think Julius Nepos in Illyria or the Domain of Soissons) instead of making hopeless war against him. When I play campaigns with other factions, I notice that the ERE and the Roman Successor states are all best friends, teaming up against me.

It seems to me that CA simply created AI that is designed to indiscriminately target the human player in the hope of making a difficult game. As a result, they simply created an illogical and tedious game that's not fun to play at all. There is no point in building alliances or subjugating other factions because as sure as the Sun will rise in the East they will betray you.

Thos only way in which this could possibly be fixed is by making a mod that changes cultural and religious penalties.

If I were to for example increase the diplomatic penalty for germanic factions with Celts, I think we might be able to see Saxon invasions of Britain more often. The thing currently preventing me from this is that i fear we might also see some weird Frankish invasions of Britain.

And when it comes to the Vikings, they share the same culture and relgion tables as all other Germanic factions. So making them hate germanic factions on the basis of culture or religion is unfortunatly impossible.

[SharpEyed]

Thos only way in which this could possibly be fixed is by making a mod that changes cultural and religious penalties.

If I were to for example increase the diplomatic penalty for germanic factions with Celts, I think we might be able to see Saxon invasions of Britain more often. The thing currently preventing me from this is that i fear we might also see some weird Frankish invasions of Britain.

And when it comes to the Vikings, they share the same culture and relgion tables as all other Germanic factions. So making them hate germanic factions on the basis of culture or religion is unfortunatly impossible.

Only diplomatic penalty changes wont be enough to fix this, there is some background system working independent from it I believe.
And that system works differently between AI vs player and AI vs AI, I belive too.

As OP said he had no problem with Huns, oppositely he was so good with'em -as diplomatical numbers of talking-

[Darios]

I don't consider myself to be an extremely critical person in regards to games and I usually try to see the bright side of everything. For all of its problems, I never considered Rome 2 to be unplayable. There were some issues early in the game's lifetime that really annoyed me but CA addressed most of them fairly early and you'll be surprised at how well the Romans, Seleucids, Arverni, and Egypt perform in the campaign nowadays. Unfortunately, many of the issues that CA fixed on Rome 2 somehow popped up again in Attila. On top of that there is the AI behavior which more or less makes the game unplayable. It's a pity for me to say because I love the late imperial period but Attila is a bad game.

[SirRobin]

I don't consider myself to be an extremely critical person in regards to games and I usually try to see the bright side of everything. For all of its problems, I never considered Rome 2 to be unplayable. There were some issues early in the game's lifetime that really annoyed me but CA addressed most of them fairly early and you'll be surprised at how well the Romans, Seleucids, Arverni, and Egypt perform in the campaign nowadays. Unfortunately, many of the issues that CA fixed on Rome 2 somehow popped up again in Attila. On top of that there is the AI behavior which more or less makes the game unplayable. It's a pity for me to say because I love the late imperial period but Attila is a bad game.

Many of the same problems seem to pop up in every game. Backstabbing AI is one of them.

[Telenil]

A modder has explained the AI has a % chance to declare war against a human player. Some mods removed it and made the AI more agressive overall.

[SharpEyed]

A modder has explained the AI has a % chance to declare war against a human player. Some mods removed it and made the AI more agressive overall.

I've looked at that thread many times but I didnt see that explanation, well anyway this confirms my idea that there is a "background system"
And it doesnt make sense i believe..

[GrimmCro]

It's just another Great Power feature. I'll admit that diplomatic points, both negative and positive, can change depending on the next king that takes the throne, but some changes are way too drastic and for no apparent reason. A one province faction who you've been trading with, had defensive and military alliance, married in and out of, suddenly flips the switch because... reasons.

They said the next patch will balance the Great Power modifier but there will be plenty of features like the one OP mentioned that will be overlooked and remain the bane of the campaign until the next patch.

[SharpEyed]

It's just another Great Power feature. I'll admit that diplomatic points, both negative and positive, can change depending on the next king that takes the throne, but some changes are way too drastic and for no apparent reason. A one province faction who you've been trading with, had defensive and military alliance, married in and out of, suddenly flips the switch because... reasons.

They said the next patch will balance the Great Power modifier but there will be plenty of features like the one OP mentioned that will be overlooked and remain the bane of the campaign until the next patch.

then this game is like a luck game more than a strategy,because randomly kings and then their attitude can change everything, is that what u mean?
if so, this is very stupid

[Tardi]

Doesn't this seem to happen more or less anytime you're at war with someone? In my ERE campaign I am in the year 467 and I have constantly been feeding the Huns money in order to build friendship with them....we even managed to wipe out half of the Sassanid Empire. My war against the Anteans is going wonderfully then all of a sudden the Anteans managed to get the Huns to declare war on me. The Huns had three hordes outside of Nicomedia so they attack and raze it. I assume that I'll manage to eventually find a way to kill them but the way this mechanic work is so illogical that it's really annoying.

The same happened during my Burgundian campaign. I was putting down a rebellion near Rugion and all of a sudden the rebels managed to turn my Saxon allies against me.

Seems to me another feature CA added to the game in order to make it "badass" and difficult beyond the point of logic. What's the point of building up good diplomatic relations with someone if I know that they are likely to turn on me at the drop of a pen?

Yes, I agree the AI is acting strange in my campaigns as well and diplomacy is not perfect as far as i see from you perspective, but still let's hope they will change in the next parch. Diplomacy needs to be improved. sure that's what they should do in the next patch.

[Lugotorix]

It's baffling in one instance- Africa has been hostile and deteriorating with me for about fifty years now, but due to a non-aggression pact that was signed around the start of the campaign, they still haven't attacked- the only holdouts from the rest of the North African continent, despite them being allied to them all this time. Yet neutral hordes, or even defensive allies, will attack on the turn of a dime. I think the ruler is a very important factor, which is why they're toning down the 'hates rival empires.' trait.

[iloveyourz]

tons of problems with this game and the AI

The running around your defensive cities and not siegng anything that has more than Half a garrison stack
the running away in general causing you to chase them for 2-3 years only for them to die in an auto resolve
the ai not giving up when you beat them. attacking me with double stacks and losing to 1 army noone defending their city anymore and wont declare peace.
the ai attacking you from across the world WHY IS THE SAXON RAIDING Egypt while the WRE IS STILL up and the franks and saxons are at war?
THE AI NOT respecting your lands at all. power bar 99-1 in my favor and you are raiding my settlement? are you high? then getting mad when i attack you. And your allies getting mad because you are causing public order problems in my lands?


and my biggest PEEVE OF ALL

500+ relation with faction and he wont non agresive treaty wont defensive or miltary
Or at war with me for 10 turns with 500+ rating and wont accept peace offers.

[SharpEyed]

tons of problems with this game and the AI

The running around your defensive cities and not siegng anything that has more than Half a garrison stack
the running away in general causing you to chase them for 2-3 years only for them to die in an auto resolve
the ai not giving up when you beat them. attacking me with double stacks and losing to 1 army noone defending their city anymore and wont declare peace.
the ai attacking you from across the world WHY IS THE SAXON RAIDING Egypt while the WRE IS STILL up and the franks and saxons are at war?
THE AI NOT respecting your lands at all. power bar 99-1 in my favor and you are raiding my settlement? are you high? then getting mad when i attack you. And your allies getting mad because you are causing public order problems in my lands?


and my biggest PEEVE OF ALL

500+ relation with faction and he wont non agresive treaty wont defensive or miltary
Or at war with me for 10 turns with 500+ rating and wont accept peace offers.

tell me about it.. but still some ppl insisting to not believe it lol