Civic Tech Tree Theory

[GrimmCro]

Out of sheer curiosity I started a new campaign with Geats and chose only to focus on the Civic tech tree. The idea was to make do with the basic units available early on and upgrade the military through the buildings unlocked via the civic tech tree. There's not a whole lot of them but some are good enough to win fights. I thought I'd finish the civic tree, have a kick ass economy and then move on to the military tree and build up my forces as I went along. I figured it would mean avoiding that irritating upgrading that sees you having to disband half your forces to keep a few fully upgraded stacks.

So, I've been in that period of the game where nothing is happening and I'm just going through the turns building stuff. And it just dawned on me, it's been a while since I've had a fight. Further more, the pesky Great Power modifier and the imperium level increases which cause factions to declare war haven't been seen in a while. Imperium went up and that's all nice and great, but no one is fighting me. And I'm in the very last block of the civic tree:

Civic tree screenshot
http://i.imgur.com/ykYIPMS.png

The only fights I've had thus far happened when I invaded the Picts and Caledonians and little later on took Eblana from the Ebdanians. Picts and Caledonians got destroyed completely while Ebdanians had a stack roaming around Spain. They never came north to try and reclaim their land. Brittain holds two provinces in the south while I'm slowly building up everything north.

I've had only one declaration of war against me, that of Burgindians and their allies Lugians. When they moved to Hrefnesholt to attack, I quickly recruited a basic levy, thrall and some mercs and they gave up and pulled back. Few turns later they asked for 4k and peace which I refused, then shortly after they offered 1k for peace and I took it. Lugians followed with the same offer shortly after and the phoney war was over. I'm technically still at war with Anteans, WRE and Ebdanians. The last fight with Ebdanians happened when I forced them out of Ireland, the last fight with WRE happened when I raided Eboracum a few times before they torched it and left. I've never even seen Anteans in a fight, but they're WRE allies so they've declared just for the hell of it.

I'm at turn 113, imperium level Inspiring, building up Britain, playing politics and waiting for buildings to be constructed and to get enough to start working on Lindum. I've got two full stacks for king and heir and half stacks which I built up when it seemed Britain might get naughty, but they never did and I never bothered disbanding them.

http://i.imgur.com/rOLxdkK.png
http://i.imgur.com/1r6uOKD.png

The question is:
Is development of the Military Tech Tree impacting the Great Power modifier faster and to greater extent than the development of Civic Tech Tree? Is being economically strong not as threatening as being militarily strong, in terms of the game, that is? Maybe it's the dull period of the game that has me thinking like this or maybe the next imperium level increase will see the change of everything, but so far I'm literally in no danger. I have plenty of folks in the diplomacy tab who are not all too happy with me, but none of them are making anything out of it.

Can anyone tell me if they've tried doing this approach with Civic Tree focus, have they experienced any difference? Difficulty level is Normal which probably aids in the possible placebo, but I can't help but to wonder if CA actually did this on purpose. What are your thoughts?

[Bramborough]

That's pretty interesting. Part of it might be because you're playing the Geats, haven't expanded into mainland Europe (thereby not attracting much Hun attention), and not in adjacent contact with very many factions. Those who you do border are probably still culturally and religiously similar (I can't tell from that minimap, but am guessing your neighbors are Jute, Rugian, Varinian, folks like that). As for the WRE, well, of course they have their hands full anyway with everybody else.

Then there's the possibility that nearby factions might have an unusually high number of amicable/passive faction leaders currently in power. More than once I've had a long-friendly or non-troublesome neighbor drastically change their attitude overnight. After a couple of instances, I started paying closer attention to neighboring FL's, and noticed this would usually happen if a new king came to their throne.

I dunno, just a guess. I don't know how much of that is a factor, if at all. Might be worth trying the same civic-only experiment with a more centrally-located faction that you've played before at the same difficulty.

[Slaists]

I actually did the same civic tree approach as you with Geats on my first VH campaign (took it to minor victory and abandoned).

I did not completely shun military tech though: researched 2 of them that lead to -10% upkeep then switched to full civic research. I did not turtle though (not entirely): rushed Jutes, Danes on turn 1 and 3 respectively and then proceeded to sack/conquer Britain.

Here is the campaign if you interested in that sort of stuff (the chronicles):

https://chronicles.totalwar.com/Vellata/chapter/12558

I did get some imperium jumps as I developed and expanded, but nothing that would turn the whole map map at me.

[GrimmCro]

Might be worth trying the same civic-only experiment with a more centrally-located faction that you've played before at the same difficulty.

I'm gonna have to test this, could be something in it.

I actually did the same civic tree approach as you with Geats on my first VH campaign (took it to minor victory and abandoned).

I did not completely shun military tech though: researched 2 of them that lead to -10% upkeep then switched to full civic research. I did not turtle though (not entirely): rushed Jutes, Danes on turn 1 and 3 respectively and then proceeded to sack/conquer Britain.

Here is the campaign if you interested in that sort of stuff (the chronicles):

https://chronicles.totalwar.com/Vellata/chapter/12558

I did get some imperium jumps as I developed and expanded, but nothing that would turn the whole map map at me.

Interesting. So the difficulty level doesn't seem to play that big a factor.

[Slaists]

I'm gonna have to test this, could be something in it.



Interesting. So the difficulty level doesn't seem to play that big a factor.

Not really. I am currently playing as Ostrogoths on legendary and I have yet to see anyone declare war on me. I went all the way from the starting position to Spain sacking and liberating along the way finally settling in Portugal. I even got the Huns to agree to a truce and become my allies. The AI aggression folks claim is purely a result of their own play-style.

I cannot say I like the new chronicle feature since it is too cluttered for my taste, but one thing I learned by looking at a few (featured ones) is that judging by the event count in the reported campaigns most folks dont pay much attention to diplomacy (or politics). I had >1000 "recorded events" in my minor victory turns whereas the featured chronicles had about 200 in more turns.