EUIV Multiplayer VII

[alimungo]

I'm calling
15
14
11

[Kaiser Leonidas]

4, 11, 13

[Nelon]

7, 6, 17

[Poach]

2, 1, 23.

[Pat89]

17
21
23

(Also, I'm not against people picking outside of Europe btw, accepting the tech disadvantage, but they're not with numbers on this map)

[Poach]

On the contary, what's fantastically appealing to me about custom nations is that it's an even playing field (or at least, as even as you can get, since geography still plays a major part). Nobody can complain that someone did better because they started with more or had better national ideas, as everyone started with the same number of points to spend. Whether we play at 200 or 400, the point is everyone is playing at that level.

We've never had level starting before. Why is it being forced on us now? If you want to start small and weak be my guest, I did that last game and want to play a major power. With 200 points you start off with force limits of 15-18 and (in region 2 which I put my claim in for above) I start off roughly the equal of Aragon and what's left of Castille in the north. Not even remotely close to being a contender with majors like France, England, Ottoman Empire, or Austria. If I weren't being forced to contend with custom-tailored national ideas I'd just pick one of said majors to get round this 200 point stupidity.

[Pat89]

There's no fun in everyone starting out as a France-like powerhouse. Which is guaranteed to happen except for maybe two or three players who limit themselves.

[Musthavename]

We've never had level starting before. Why is it being forced on us now?

Because we've never had an option to do level starting before. Now we suddenly have, why not go for it? I'm far more excited at this game than any other point on that one reason.

With 200 points you start off with force limits of 15-18 and (in region 2 which I put my claim in for above) I start off roughly the equal of Aragon and what's left of Castille in the north. Not even remotely close to being a contender with majors like France, England, Ottoman Empire, or Austria. If I weren't being forced to contend with custom-tailored national ideas I'd just pick one of said majors to get round this 200 point stupidity.

Except everyone starts off as that sized nation, so what's the problem with starting smaller? Expansion in EU4 is far more constant rate (once they nerfed diplo-annexation) than EU3 was.

It's also not that we're picking 200 points out of "stupidity". We're having a vote on it. Heck, I argued my case against the pirate ban last time, but people sided against me and I simply accepted it. People can still change their minds at this point and frankly I'm inclined to just take the vote again before we start this Sunday, since not only is it incredibly close at this point, but I'm not sure if everyone has voted. I've made my case that 400 points is too much, and you've got to make the equivalent case that 200 points is too little.

I still stick to my guns that 200 points gives a fairly decent sized nation. I don't think starting off with the power of say Portugal and having custom ideas is a bad thing. 400 points on the other hand makes me bigger than France with better ideas than France (heck, my 400 point plan has enough points to spare for Dutch Republic off the bat), and I'm just not sure there's room enough in Europe for us all to do that.

[Poach]

So don't. If you want to play a Portugal-sized nation play a Portugal-sized nation. I want to play a France-sized nation, because I played a Portugal-sized nation last session and have no appetite for repeating that all over again.

[Nelon]

So don't. If you want to play a Portugal-sized nation play a Portugal-sized nation. I want to play a France-sized nation, because I played a Portugal-sized nation last session and have no appetite for repeating that all over again.

If everyone is confined to Europe, there will hopefully be no major powers. Spain, France and England will be castrated by custom nations, so you'll still easily be able to eat into AI and become one yourself.

A tip for getting more force limits at the start - stay away from expensive provinces. They're not cost-effective. My Yorkshire doesn't have London or Lothian, but still controls most of the UK, has 27k force limits and good ideas. So, in theory, i'll just be able to roll over England and Scotland and get the provinces with admin power instead of my valuable points.

[Poach]

In avoiding high points value provinces I get 21 FL, income's still crap, and am saddled with having to annex very high value provinces that'll suck my admin power dry in the effort. This is unappealing: I'm still a minor power and sure as hell am not "easily" short of being a major power. This doesn't solve anything.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Erm... I'm guessing I'm too late, but what time do you lot play?

[Ciciro]

Well we haven't actually started yet. Games are 3 hours starting at 2 pm Sunday EST.

[Ynen]

Tbh, I think 200 is too little and 400 too much. I want a 300 option. Paradox plz.

[Nelon]

Tbh, I think 200 is too little and 400 too much. I want a 300 option. Paradox plz.

We could set it to 400 but have the limit actually be somewhere between 200 to 400. Of course, we'd have to rely on people being honest. Since so many people have changed their minds, we should re vote for sure. Set up a strawpoll, if we can't reset the poll in this thread; http://strawpoll.me/3949426

[Poach]

How can you tell whether or not the voters are players?

[Keelos Penguinos]

If youre wanting to go down this 300 points route then its worth pointing out that the game tells everybody how many points everyone has used when they finalise their custom nation so honesty wouldnt be a problem.

[I WUB PUGS]

Hmm, I am actually intrigued by this. Can you start in America?

[Ciciro]

Hmm, I am actually intrigued by this. Can you start in America?

I highly doubt anyone would agree to that. It's bad enough starting out at the edge of the old world, let alone being by yourself in the new one.

[I WUB PUGS]

Oh, suddenly far less intriguing since it will probably still look a lot like Europe by 1650, just with different flags. Natural borders and all.

Enjoy.