What are your siege defence tactics? (WRE or otherwise)

[Aenima]

How do you deploy your soldiers in siege defences (walled and unwalled) and how do you guys actually play out the battles? Do you stay in the streets or camp in the town centre? Do you just let them throw themselves at you or do you play so as to outlfank and surround the enemy? What do you place where, what do you go for first etc etc? Mainly as the WRE, but just in general I'm curious to know how you guys do them and if there's anything I could stand to learn. Thanks!

[surg3on]

Alans here so if Im trapped in a town I usually have 4-6 Alanic horsemen that I need to get out of town but away from their spearmen. They will then roam around killing archers/catapults/generals if the AI will let me. My melee/ranged troops will stay in the town.

[Aenima]

Alans here so if Im trapped in a town I usually have 4-6 Alanic horsemen that I need to get out of town but away from their spearmen. They will then roam around killing archers/catapults/generals if the AI will let me. My melee/ranged troops will stay in the town.

Wow, how many men do Alanic garrisons have?

In my experience it's the best policy to defend your town by keeping your Towers alive as long as possible. Depending on the size of your force, cluster around one or two Towers, block every access route and pray that they hold their position till the Tower has finished the enemy off. The town center is pretty much useless and hard to defend. Even the castle hill isn't always the best spot because you'll probably be at a disadvantage in range units or they're out of ammo very soon. The Tower has no ammo limit and will eat away enemy range units. Also the constant fire from the tower lowers the enemy moral significantly.

When I first played I thought so too, but losing the town centre gives a morale/attack dmg/defence stat drop and someone here recommended pulling back to the town centre. Don't know exactly how much, but there's certainly some to it. Also there's the issue of the AI fielding ridiculous amounts of missile troops (ie sometimes upwards of 6) which would decimate a line out in the open. I may give it another shot sometime, though.

The best spot usually varies, but there are a few settlement hills that probably are the worst places to deploy. One of these is a hill that barbarian minor towns get where the hill is dominating the town-scape and overlooks the ocean. On the face of it, the hill looks like a perfect place to defend. However, if you try to deploy on there you encounter invisible barriers (from extended building footprints). The actual usable width of the street on this hill is about 3-5 men wide so you have to deploy your units in a super-narrow column one by one.

It definitely varies place to place, but what I generally do is block off one entrance with a barricade (sometimes never gets touched) and place my spears in testudo on another approach with the plan to flank in the rear, meanwhile my cohors are placed in testudo on another approach but angled so that the light infantry can attack the enemy in the flank when they come up to get my cohors. Not sure if it's the best strategy, though, since eventually the light infantry struggle in combat and sometimes the testudo units just totally freak out and get in differnet formation.

[surg3on]

Wow, how many men do Alanic garrisons have?

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Ha ha. My town defences have been with at least a small army supporting the town. My agents tell me when the shites about to hit the fan most of the time

[Xipotec]

In my experience it's the best policy to defend your town by keeping your Towers alive as long as possible. Depending on the size of your force, cluster around one or two Towers, block every access route and pray that they hold their position till the Tower has finished the enemy off. The town center is pretty much useless and hard to defend. Even the castle hill isn't always the best spot because you'll probably be at a disadvantage in range units or they're out of ammo very soon. The Tower has no ammo limit and will eat away enemy range units. Also the constant fire from the tower lowers the enemy moral significantly.

[Slaists]

The best spot usually varies, but there are a few settlement hills that probably are the worst places to deploy. One of these is a hill that barbarian minor towns get where the hill is dominating the town-scape and overlooks the ocean. On the face of it, the hill looks like a perfect place to defend. However, if you try to deploy on there you encounter invisible barriers (from extended building footprints). The actual usable width of the street on this hill is about 3-5 men wide so you have to deploy your units in a super-narrow column one by one.

[Seyavash]

How do you defend the towers? I find that having enemy units even slightly near the tower is enough to start the timer to its destruction. With most level 1 garrisons there simply aren't enough units to hold it for long enough compared to town centers. Due to food and sanitation costs I rarely build above level 1 in towns

[Geronimo2006]

I usually try to arrange the troops in the central plaza in such a way that the enemy will end up attacked on their flanks if they attack me (provided I have enough troops). If I only have a tiny garrison I place them at each entrance to the plaza (if I have enough troops). Sometimes (especially when troops are scarce) I will wait for them to attack one of the manned-entrances to the plaza and then attack them from behind - if possible. I try to save money to upgrade to a municipia so I have lots of towers which I find really helps.

[ggsimmonds]

**I primarily play as barbarians (mostly Visigoths) but strategy should be able to carry over**
I identify or create bottlenecks. In settlements without proper walls I set up my best defensive unit (pikes or spears) at the road where the enemy tries to enter the city. Behind them are archers.

After this I set up a gauntlet or staggered siege. Depending on the width of the roads, 1 or 2 spearman/pikes completely block off access. So if the enemy beats my initial line to enter the city, they are faced with another unit(s) blocking the road to get deeper into the city.

In the deployment stage I identify which units will be my "raiders." These guys are usually swordsmen or axemen with high attack values but not reliable enough to hold a line. In field battles these are the guys who occupy the second line near the flanks. I position them away from the initial skirmish near a different gate/entrance. When the enemy gains entry into the city and/or commits to the assault, I send these guys out the nearest free/open entrance to flank the army. I'll usually have some cavalry with them.

The cavalry will have different a responsibility though. Their job is to attack the artillery, archers, and troops like that who tend to remain a distance from the main force.

I always try to settle the battle at the "walls" (even with cities that don't have them). If the enemy gets into the city I use the roads and troop placement to harass and flank the hell out of them. Fear the day the AI improves and starts intelligently dividing its forces along each road instead of following the Roman strategy from the battle of Cannae.

I always have phases and plans in mind for each. So if my first line of defense falls, I immediately enter into phase 2 instead of making it up on the go. If artillery is present, I position them where they can fire on the enemy as they approach but as soon as the enemy is at the walls I cease fire. I learned this lesson the hard way by witnessing a misfire that devastated my shieldwall that created a big opening into the city.

So my forces are always somewhat scattered throughout the city, but it is okay because if I'm in a siege it means I am outnumbered anyway.

In sieges for walled cities I do it a little differently at times. It depends on a lot of things, for example if the enemy has multiple artillery I may concede the walls. But typically I keep my forces back deeper into the city until the enemy shows me where they intend to attack at. Then I move everyone into position and follow the typical routine. Last thing I want to do is position my defenses too soon and have my spearmen hit by an onager shot.

Finally there is the stuff that happens beforehand. It is extremely important to not be caught off guard. If an army lays siege to a settlement and you were caught by surprise then you probably lost it. I don't like spreading myself to thin or trying to paint as much of the map in my color as possible, so defense is easier for me.

[GussieFinkNottle]

Maybe it's a bit exploit-y but I've found the way to win siege defence of walled settlements with very low casualties is not to put any men on the wall. Instead let the enemy take the walltop and put your men in v-shapes around the bottom of the staircases down to street level. When they come pouring out, disorganised and piecemeal, slaughter them unit by unit.

Use your own missile troops to kill men on the wall, or, in Rome II, to shoot at the enemies your infantry are fighting (in Attila the friendly fire is too much).

Never sally out until all the enemies are routed or if they refuse to move. Place a scrum of men behind the gate to catch fleeing enemies.

By this method I have defeated attacking armies vastly larger than my forces on several occasions.

[Slaists]

Maybe it's a bit exploit-y but I've found the way to win siege defence of walled settlements with very low casualties is not to put any men on the wall. Instead let the enemy take the walltop and put your men in v-shapes around the bottom of the staircases down to street level. When they come pouring out, disorganised and piecemeal, slaughter them unit by unit.

Use your own missile troops to kill men on the wall, or, in Rome II, to shoot at the enemies your infantry are fighting (in Attila the friendly fire is too much).

Never sally out until all the enemies are routed or if they refuse to move. Place a scrum of men behind the gate to catch fleeing enemies.

By this method I have defeated attacking armies vastly larger than my forces on several occasions.

Well, that has been in TW games since Rome 1 I think: you suffer much lower casualties by defending choke points in the city rather than standing on the wall.

[Telenil]

Use your own missile troops to kill men on the wall, or, in Rome II, to shoot at the enemies your infantry are fighting (in Attila the friendly fire is too much).

... oh, that's why my horsemen were "under fire" and took casualties when chasing routed units. Good to know. There is no way to have towers hold their fire, is there?

[econ21]

There is no way to have towers hold their fire, is there?

No. I've started to call off my cavalry until the routers have left tower range now.

[GussieFinkNottle]

I'll quote some posts I made in this thread - http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...risons-so-weak - as it might be helpful for WRE garrison defence:

The small garrisons are surprisingly effective if used correctly. A minor settlement has a citadel in the centre with 3 entrances. Usually the AI attacks 2, so put your limitanei/comitatenses spears on one as they're a good defensive unit, and put your cohors/legio on the other. Hide your scout equites in woods outside the settlement, and put the exploratores by the other exit from the citadel ready to rush out (they are fast moving infantry and have a super fast movement ability).

When the enemy engage your troops at each entrance, use the exploratores to attack them in the rear on one, and the cavalry on the other. Even if you don't win (unlikely thanks to the morale shock) you will deal huge casualties since the infantry sandwich is a meat grinder and the cavalry charge is absolutely devastating, even from light scout equites. You need to make sure to get a good charge up with the cav, and if it devolves into a slow melee, pull them out and charge again.

Don't try to hold the towers, just let them thin the enemy ranks as they approach. Generally you can scare off missile troops by moving aggressively towards them with your cav, but without actually engaging (you may need to do this many times). The pattern of enemy melee cav attacks is generally charge, fight for a bit, pull back, charge in again. So just keep your cav out of their way whenever they disengage from your infantry, give them time and they'll re-engage. A lot of it comes down to micro in the situations specific to your game in the heat of battle.

Don't leave the enemy missile troops alone. You harry them, charging towards them then pulling back, exploiting their use of skirmish mode to keep them from firing volleys, perhaps you allow a charge or two to hit home and deal some casualties. The important thing though is to make sure your cavalry don't get bogged down in melee because then they start to die alarmingly quickly. This is one of the things that needs to be fixed in patches.