So troops who defect suddenly become insta-OP? -Broken Unit Stat Logic-

[Taullis]

What is with the Alaman, and Gothic Roman defectors units suddenly gaining 20-30 points in melee attack compared to their Roman counterparts? Could they not fight before they defected? All the other stats stay the same, but for some unknown reason the "barbarian" roman units get massive attack stats.

Why don't the standard Roman units have the same stats. They are the same frickin' unit!

And for that matter, CA totally nerfed Roman infantry units. Thank goodness for Tagmata Cav!

[vinxente]

What is with the Alaman, and Gothic Roman defectors units suddenly gaining 20-30 points in melee attack compared to their Roman counterparts? Could they not fight before they defected? All the other stats stay the same, but for some unknown reason the "barbarian" roman units get massive attack stats.

Why don't the standard Roman units have the same stats. They are the same frickin' unit!

And for that matter, CA totally nerfed Roman infantry units. Thank goodness for Tagmata Cav!

The Roman did not pay them as well as their Germanic Overlord.

[iloveyourz]

What is with the Alaman, and Gothic Roman defectors units suddenly gaining 20-30 points in melee attack compared to their Roman counterparts? Could they not fight before they defected? All the other stats stay the same, but for some unknown reason the "barbarian" roman units get massive attack stats.

Why don't the standard Roman units have the same stats. They are the same frickin' unit!

And for that matter, CA totally nerfed Roman infantry units. Thank goodness for Tagmata Cav!

units gain attack points based on rank and for some reason rebels have better training than my constant combat vets on frontlines sooooo yea
the problem isnt the different stats it a bunch of slaves and rebels having an army of pure vets

[.Mitch.]

units gain attack points based on rank and for some reason rebels have better training than my constant combat vets on frontlines sooooo yea
the problem isnt the different stats it a bunch of slaves and rebels having an army of pure vets

No you misunderstand lol..

This unit:
http://attila-enc.totalwar.com/#/uni...ores_defectors

And this unit:
http://attila-enc.totalwar.com/#/uni...ores_domestici

One is the actual unit, the other is a counterpart of that unit that has defected.

[iloveyourz]

No you misunderstand lol..

This unit:
http://attila-enc.totalwar.com/#/uni...ores_defectors

And this unit:

http://attila-enc.totalwar.com/#/uni...ores_domestici

One is the actual unit, the other is a counterpart of that unit that has defected.

ahh i see but after reading the bottom it seems the defectors are vets who got tired of roman that why they have slightly better stats. makes little bit of sense if you look at it that way

[iloveyourz]

gah double post

[Sacerdos]

Not really? The Roman Protectores are vets too and by that logic should have the same stats for being vets.

[The Iron Chancellor]

Hmm, I too have noticed this. Thinking on 'Tabletop Logic' for a moment: the best way to handle them, in my opinion, would be to provide a 'Special Rule' that increases their Melee Attack vs Roman culture groups to represent resentment/hatred etc. It wouldn't represent them being outright better or more skilled, but unbridled retribution unleashed against their hated former masters/comrades. I wonder if that's possible to implement in game?

[Prof]

Barbarians > Romans. As soon as they are allowed to grow a beard, they become more manly and stronger.

[Aeratus]

Probably because those Roman troops were recruited from the Barbarians anyways, and those Barbarians would more zealously fight for their home tribe rather than for the Empire?

This is hinted clearly in the description: "More often than not, these soldiers came from conquered Imperial territory, breaking away from an overlord they didn't believe in to fight for their homeland."

[Taullis]

Probably because those Roman troops were recruited from the Barbarians anyways, and those Barbarians would more zealously fight for their home tribe rather than for the Empire?

This is hinted clearly in the description: "More often than not, these soldiers came from conquered Imperial territory, breaking away from an overlord they didn't believe in to fight for their homeland."

While that makes sense, the units CA picked to be defectors are both "elite" roman units -> one of Palatina, and the other being the Protectores Domestici - the imperial regiment. Meaning they should probably not have any fighting stat differences (or that CA needs to revisit Roman units.) At any rate, I would have to say that the lines you quoted make more sense if it was a morale buff, but the magic 20 point attack buffs make less sense since they didn't touch other stats.

And while I love Tagmata Cav, they need to address some other issues of balance/unit descriptions. i.e. the description for Clibinarii says they ride into battle with clubs, axes, etc... When in game that would imply after they charge that they should be able to hold their own: "Whereas cataphracts were traditionally armed with lances for charging, clibinarii carried all manner of clubs, maces, and axes which enabled them to get in close and literally smash their opponents to pieces in melee." Here instead we get contus-armed (arguably still correct) cavalry with a melee damage of 10 and melee defense of 12....

Similar issue being the ERE's Excubitores - They are described as better than the Scholae Palatina, yet are inferior stat-wise and don't even get a bonus v infantry. From my readings and research when I was trying to make a late-era mod for R2, It really seems like the true hierarchy should be more like:

Tagmata
|
Clibanarii = Excubitores (Clibanarii are still shock troops - many accounts of them acting this way.)
|
Scholae Palatina
|
Catafractarii