German prof rejects indian student, citing "rape culture"

[SoumyaBanerjee]

Never knew that every person embodied a country's culture I guess, going by her wonderful logic, all muslims should be boycotted simply because there are violent verses in the koran which leads to so much violence nowadays.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...indias-problem
In case anyone wants the original quora link, here it is :
http://www.quora.com/What-should-an-...ntry-for-women
She says that she cannot accept any indian students because she has many female students in her course :O Chillingly, she also says that other german univ profs are thinking of doing the same. I hope this doesnt set a precedent.
As a concerned indian male, i have always been of the conviction that india's rape problem isnt going to be solved either by white saviours who harbour the simplistic notion that every indian male is a dark skinned savage, or by ultranationalist indians, who claim that western xenophobia is making india's rape problem sound worse than it is. India does have a huge sexual violence problem, linked primarily to its poor general treatment of women. This needs to be addressed immediately to make our country a better place for almost half of our citizens. But can discrimination against individual indians(who probably arent rapist themselves) the way to go?
Your thoughts?

[removeduser_487563287433]

This is clearly an individual example of somebody getting it wrong. I am not sure what there is to discuss here.

[HannibalExMachina]

plain case of not-so-closeted racism to me. anyone who holds such views has no place in any public institution, let alone in a position of responsibility.

sadly, middle class perpetuated racism has made a much too popular return under the guise of the "Worried Citizen" (you know, the people starting a sentence with: I have no problem with foreigners, but...).

[Cyclops]

A racist got slapped down. Its a good outcome.

I have to say the balance between social problems and racism is a prickly one. There's racism against Indian people in Australia (not as bad as the stuff directed at Aborigines but there's no acceptable level). A lot of Indian students get jobs as taxi drivers where they are exploited by the bosses and beaten by some passengers.

We have had Indian diplomats and politicians lecturing Australia on democracy and discrimination and then we here there's a rape problem in India.

The outcome is a lot of people practising the silent racism Hannibal mentions. "You know" nod nod. This professor said and did what a lot of people imagine and mutter "the ought to...". It sends a good signal that she had to back down, she's lucky she wasn't sacked AFAIC.

[athanaric]

A racist got slapped down. Its a good outcome.

I have to say the balance between social problems and racism is a prickly one. There's racism against Indian people in Australia (not as bad as the stuff directed at Aborigines but there's no acceptable level). A lot of Indian students get jobs as taxi drivers where they are exploited by the bosses and beaten by some passengers.

We have had Indian diplomats and politicians lecturing Australia on democracy and discrimination and then we here there's a rape problem in India.

The outcome is a lot of people practising the silent racism Hannibal mentions. "You know" nod nod. This professor said and did what a lot of people imagine and mutter "the ought to...". It sends a good signal that she had to back down, she's lucky she wasn't sacked AFAIC.

I think it's less racism (although, those "progressive" types are always racist in one way or another), and more to do with the fact that Leipzig university is run by nutjobs. They recently changed the way all professors are adressed from the generic masculine form (Professor) to the explicitly female form (Professorin). That means male staff are addressed as women. I think we should henceforth disregard anything coming from these clowns as unscientific BS. The flawed logic of Ms Beck-Sickinger is a perfect example of this.

I also think there's a lot of cowardice and double standards involved. They'd never reject an Egyptian, Turk, or Iraqi for the same reason (even though rape culture is just as rampant in those countries), because the cries of "racism" and "islamophobia" would be deafening (not to mention the death threats). They are only "courageous" towards people from countries that don't put a fatwa and a price tag on your head if you offend them. Thus people from the US, or India, or Israel are fair game in their eyes, while those from countries with worse track records aren't bothered.

[mongrel]

I think it's less racism (although, those "progressive" types are always racist in one way or another), and more to do with the fact that Leipzig university is run by nutjobs. They recently changed the way all professors are adressed from the generic masculine form (Professor) to the explicitly female form (Professorin). That means male staff are addressed as women. I think we should henceforth disregard anything coming from these clowns as unscientific BS. The flawed logic of Ms Beck-Sickinger is a perfect example of this.

I also think there's a lot of cowardice and double standards involved. They'd never reject an Egyptian, Turk, or Iraqi for the same reason (even though rape culture is just as rampant in those countries), because the cries of "racism" and "islamophobia" would be deafening (not to mention the death threats). They are only "courageous" towards people from countries that don't put a fatwa and a price tag on your head if you offend them. Thus people from the US, or India, or Israel are fair game in their eyes, while those from countries with worse track records aren't bothered.

Anti-Islamic discourse in Europe is widespread, as evidenced in the many threads on the issue posted on this forum.

[athanaric]

Racism is really frowned upon in Europe.

At least you got that part right. The "Europe" part obviously excluding Putinreich here, of course.

Mostly it's just FRP making a fuss about immigrants. By far the typical (assault or otherwise) rapist is a good old Norwegian party going male.

Because you know Norway better than the Norwegian police does.

Anti-Islamic discourse in Europe is widespread, as evidenced in the many threads on the issue posted on this forum.

Yeah.... not in universities. Academics are very sensitive to the - real or imagined - grievances of Muslim students. Not so much India, which - apart from being a source of esoteric crap - is terra incognita to most people in Germany. There's hardly any news story on India, except for large scale catastrophes or rape scandals.

[mongrel]

Yeah.... not in universities. Academics are very sensitive to the - real or imagined - grievances of Muslim students. Not so much India, which - apart from being a source of esoteric crap - is terra incognita to most people in Germany. There's hardly any news story on India, except for large scale catastrophes or rape scandals.

I find that hard to imagine. People are free to talk about such stuff (see Pegida) except Universities, come on....

[Nikitn]

At least you got that part right. The "Europe" part obviously excluding Putinreich here, of course.

Yeah, because the most multicultural country in Europe is also a racist one.. Let's try to separate propaganda and facts.

Because you know Norway better than the Norwegian police does.

It just so happens I speak fluent Norwegian, and I read parts of that report. They clearly put assault (it's a separate category) rapes way down on the list, with rapes at parties and rapes by romantic partner being far ahead. "Filthy Muslim raping pretty white girls" is typical overhyped nonsense spewed by the populist far-right. Sorry if this litle reality check doesn't fit with your world view.

[Condottiere 40K]

5540
This pretty much seems to veer to extreme feminism. The prevailing culture would need to exist that would encourage males to just go out and rape a woman which objects to his advances, which in Germany that's unlikely to be without consequence, unless the perp had diplomatic immunity.

So German expatriates in India may need to be careful with who they associate with, Indian male visitors to Germany would be far more likely to be cowed.

[gastovski]

Racism=Western Civilization, nothing to see here.

[Symphony]

Racism=Civilization, nothing to see here.

Fixed that for you.

[tarvu]

Fixed that for you.

What? So civilization could not exist without irrational hatred of people who look different from you (but only in certain ways, since other physical differences may/may not be tolerated depending on the culture)? What a stupid argument that fails before you even begin to defend it, but please do try I could use a good laugh.


I see a lot of Indians upset at these attacks on their culture/society often tragically to the point of denial that a problem exists at all (or making weak arguments like pointing out how rape CRIMES are more common in Western country, while at the same time ironically arguing that the only reason for the recent uptick in reported rapes is the progress made in Indian society in encouraging women to report them which I for one agree with).

Then I remember that they are sensitive because this was literally a tactic used to denigrate Indians for over a hundred years by people in Britain and elsewhere in Europe so I think they have a fair point in complaining about its revival regardless of how much of a problem rape actually is in their country (however banning the documentary India's daughter and "removing it from the internet" as Modi's government wants to do is as despicable as it is delusional).

Though I would say Scandinavians also have a pretty substantial history of being depicted as racists, and (until recently, when like India it has gotten attention from their governments) yet still actually did have a serious problem in the way their culture conceived of and treated the issue of rape (as did practically the entire world including my own country until modern feminism began to gain enough political power to do something about it). Every country and culture still has room to improve on the topic as a result so denial of the issue is not helpful (but hardly surprising on a practically male exclusive video gaming forum). At the same time I don't see how admission of a problem is ever an excuse to discriminate against a group of people or individual on the basis of their nationality.

If this professor was really concerned she should have interviewed students individually, because German men can also have disgusting and permissive views on the issue of rape (just look at some of our prolific posters from Germany) and rape is very much a part of German culture historically.

[Symphony]

What? So civilization could not exist without irrational hatred of people who look different from you (but only in certain ways, since other physical differences may/may not be tolerated depending on the culture)? What a stupid argument that fails before you even begin to defend it, but please do try I could use a good laugh.

Why would I defend a statement I didn't make? That sounds odd.

Since you didn't bother to read the post I was sarcastically editing, it said "Racism = Western Civilization". My edit intended to convey that racism isn't strictly a Western phenomenon, and didn't intend to say anything more (or less) than that. That shouldn't have been that far over your head.

[tarvu]

Why would I defend a statement I didn't make? That sounds odd.

Since you didn't bother to read the post I was sarcastically editing, it said "Racism = Western Civilization". My edit intended to convey that racism isn't strictly a Western phenomenon, and didn't intend to say anything more (or less) than that. That shouldn't have been that far over your head.

I think we have been over this before in the Ferguson thread. You commonly make blanket statements which are often repeated by people promoting a certain agenda. Such as "It is backwards to say that a suspect's life is more important than a police officer" or "racism=civilization", which is generally used by people who are promoting the idea that racism is a natural and universal human phenomenon. That it can be found everywhere, and throughout history. That isn't true, it has distinct cultural boundaries and causes and is definitely not universal or found in every civilized society. It is true it is not exclusive to the West, but it is not universal/inevitable or a necessary ingredient for civilization.

But I know I know.... you weren't saying any of those things and I am arguing with myself just like in that other thread. Your posts apparently lack any substance whatsoever and are not meant to be indicative of you taking any particular stance on an issue which you would then have to defend. I'm actually totally fine with that, it is a welcome change from most posters on this subforum. But when you make such statements I am still going to argue against them because common knowledge gives them weight to some if not most readers who I think would have taken them to mean what I said they meant before you so graciously clarified them for me.

Besides by getting you to clarify what you mean I turn your position-less post into one that essentially agrees with my viewpoint. You can attack me for it and say I'm "ridiculous" all you want, but before calling you out on these posts I had no idea that you were so against police shooting civilians or racial essentialism and I couldn't be happier to learn it since I have strong convictions towards both of those subjects. Have some reputation for coming out of the closet on these issues.

[Påsan]

Though I would say Scandinavians also have a pretty substantial history of being depicted as racists, and (until recently, when like India it has gotten attention from their governments) yet still actually did have a serious problem in the way their culture conceived of and treated the issue of rape

There has been modern governmental anti rape laws in Scandinavia since at least the 1300's, and the punishment was death. And women always had rights here, albeit not equal, they were never property. Scandinavia was a deeply christian and rural culture after the middle ages and rapes were frowned upon and akin to social suicide by the perpetrator. So what are you talking about? Surely you are not referring to Vikings here? Because after that there never has been a "rape culture" in Scandinavia.

And why do "Scandinavians have a history of being depicted as racists"?

As opposed to who? The Germans and Japanese have a history of racism, Americans and Brits have a history of racism, French, Dutch, Spain. Do you know which countries have not a history of Racism? Well Scandinavia is a good place to start looking for one.

[Enros]

Because after that there never has been a "rape culture" in Scandinavia.

Up until the 20th century women as a class were basically slaves in most of the world. There were only a few small places where that wasn't the case and Europe wasn't one of them.

There has been modern governmental anti rape laws in Scandinavia since at least the 1300's, and the punishment was death.

It was Christians who abolished rape laws in the Roman Empire.

[tarvu]

There has been modern governmental anti rape laws in Scandinavia since at least the 1300's, and the punishment was death. And women always had rights here, albeit not equal, they were never property. Scandinavia was a deeply christian and rural culture after the middle ages and rapes were frowned upon and akin to social suicide by the perpetrator. So what are you talking about? Surely you are not referring to Vikings here? Because after that there never has been a "rape culture" in Scandinavia.

And why do "Scandinavians have a history of being depicted as racists"?

As opposed to who? The Germans and Japanese have a history of racism, Americans and Brits have a history of racism, French, Dutch, Spain. Do you know which countries have not a history of Racism? Well Scandinavia is a good place to start looking for one.

If you aren't aware of the controversy surrounding the rape laws in many Scandinavian countries that was highlighted during the 2000's then I am sure I can find some articles for you on the topic. The governments reformed many of their laws and are still in the process of
reforming others. it continues to be a major political topic in those countries and it is often the subject of various popular/acclaimed pieces of Scandinavian cinema and other art. Including I'm sure a few documentaries, my point was they faced their problem (obviously not all of the men there, some who would still deny there was ever a problem at all and who are waiting for their opportunity to take back their land from the Feminazi invasion).

My point was that it should serve as a lesson to India as a country who came under international scrutiny for its treatment of rape, and instead of denying the issue (again of course some did/do) actually sought out reform and discussion on the topic. And to India's credit I see it mostly doing this, but then you have a unique issue created by nationalism (much like Scandinavian nationalists) who get riled up at international condemnation and "hypocricy" and you have silly things happen like the banning of this documentary in India. The problem is tied to culture and society (just as it has practically every culture/society), but it is not an essential part of either that is how you reform society without attacking a people as a whole.

Like violence it is a problem, and it can be systemic and require a societal/cultural shift without necessarily being indicative of there being anything wrong "at the root" of a culture which could condemn it as a whole.

There was a thread on this forum about the Scandinavian rape issue which I posted on several times, perhaps you can just look back at those. As for racist I thought I typed rapist.

[Nikitn]

It should be noted the professor herself claims she has been completely misrepresented. She has simply apologized for offending Indian people regarding her remarks on their society. Not her reasons for refusing him entry.




http://www.zv.uni-leipzig.de/service...l&ifab_id=5955

I don't (nor anybody else here as far as I know) have the original emails. So whom to believe? Hmmmm.

On a completely unrelated note.....yes Muzzies have it too easy. I mean they can like, rape anybody and still get a degree. imagine if he is an Indian Muslim?!
Thought I'd put that in because you know.......Islam....!!!!

Looks like the guy was just sore after being rejected. I mean, that professor would have to have been very eager to loose her job if she wrote "This Indian guy might rape my students" as the official reason for rejection. Racism is really frowned upon in Europe.

Yeah I have no idea what you are talking about. I cant remember anything about any rape laws. A few links would be nice.


The main controversy on the topic of rape in all my political aware life has always been how the immigrants and foreigners are grossly overrepresented in assault rape category.

"The typical assault rapists is a foreign man in his 20's while the typical rape victim is a Norwegian female in her 20's" - Norwegian police.

Mostly it's just FRP making a fuss about immigrants. By far the typical (assault or otherwise) rapist is a good old Norwegian party going male.

[Thanatos]

Racism=Western Civilization, nothing to see here.

Really now? The second I cross the border into a non-western country, all racism doesn't exist? Not even a tiny little smidgen?

How fascinating. Tell me more, so I can personally visit these utopias.