Why Germanic Spearmen are the best spear infantry in game! video guide

[rzeznicc]

hey,

Germanic Spearmen are cheap, sturdy, no nonsense spearmen that I would pick 10 out of 10 times against cavalry:



cheers!

[green tea]

Half an hour of talking- and no animations? Seriously?

Btw, welcome to the forums.

[Kjertesvein]

TL;DR Nice informative video and I learned something new.

That's an interesting video, I've mostly disregarded spearmen for their lack of killing potential vs inf. You're making a sound point in regards to the importance of anti-cav. I tried using 2 or 4 Germanic Spearmen on my flanks. This is what my flanks normally looks like. I switched some of my Germanic Noble Swordsmen, so I had 1 sword and 1 spear to balance each flanks instead. I'll report back when I've watched the replays if I spot anything interesting. There was this one interesting fight vs TGR Obelix where the only 2 units I had left at the end of the game was Chieftain with Gedriht and the Elite Doguth Spearmen, while he had 2 cav, gen, 2 archers and a spearmen. We managed to pull it through and take home a Pyrrhic victory. http://www.filedropper.com/2ndbattlevsobelix

When it comes to the Melee Attack of the Germanic Spearmen then I imagine it would do pretty good versus all the top horses (Germanic Horsemen, upgraded Germanic Horsemen and Noble Germanic Horsemen) who have fairly low Melee Defence. The problem comes when you have to land attacks versus Tagmata cavalry's 40 melee defence (or 55 in diamond).

The tip to use a move order to offensively use Spearwall... Hmmm that actually worked a lot better than I thought it would, thanks! I assumed only the first handful of guys who first made contact would be fighting, while the other men would stand in a static line and not do much. To my surprise, the Germanic Spearmen in Spearwall actually encircled the target after issuing a move order behind the targe, which is perfect. The only down side is the time it takes and the lack of any charge bonus. I guess it's best in a head on engagement versus infantry.

/rambling

Half an hour of talking- and no animations? Seriously?

Btw, welcome to the forums.

Here is an animation for you.

~Wille

[rzeznicc]

Hey, I am glad that you enjoyed the video!

I have watched your replay, and congratulations on victory, Obelix is a strong opponent to take on!

Two things catched my eye:

Firstly you have spent chevrons on infantry, while Obelix have heavly invested into chevrons on his cavlry: in my option it is a crucuial factor on why he have won the cavalry engagements.
The rule of thumb right now is: dont spend chevrons on infantry when you can spend them on cavalry. Not only cavlry plays a dominant role in the game now, but they recive much more benefit from chevrons due to fatigue bonus, which is speed bonus, which is charge bonus, which is damage :) Not to mention the added morale that makes you break later, even under fire arrows!

Secondly, none of you seemed to use either spear wall nor shield wall. I can not stress enough on how important those skills are, even when beaing rear charged by cavalry the added 100% mass will casue so much less casaulties. In both instances avoid giving a right mouse attack order (with some exceptions of course) but try to left click move order beside enemy unit: the difference is really a night and day, and the charge bonus is not worth is in longer fights.

And in case you maybe missed it, I have made a video ealier treating of Fatigue, also explaining - partialy -why its best to upgrade your cavalry over infantry, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NrRMVYY30s&hd=1

cheers :)

[rzeznicc]

Yes I have heard of men launching the game and zooming in on the detailed untis, play music in background and immerse themselves;
however, I am too busy drooling over "delta peak coefficent variation sigma distribution curve" to participate in such pettiness!

[craziii]

gamers generally respond better to unit tests in video form leave the data sheets at work bro.

[JustCrabbe]

OP You need to do ASMR also thanks for the video, I've always spammed Germanic Spearmen myself.
Would you be able to share with us your spreadsheet?

[Kjertesvein]

The germanic horsmen had 6 chevrons, and the noble germanic horsemen had 2 or 3. The only chevrons for my units were 3 upgrades on my Nordic Axe Warriors unit.

Firstly you have spent chevrons on infantry, while Obelix have heavly invested into chevrons on his cavlry: in my option it is a crucuial factor on why he have won the cavalry engagements.
The rule of thumb right now is: dont spend chevrons on infantry when you can spend them on cavalry. Not only cavlry plays a dominant role in the game now, but they recive much more benefit from chevrons due to fatigue bonus, which is speed bonus, which is charge bonus, which is damage Not to mention the added morale that makes you break later, even under fire arrows!

That is true.

Secondly, none of you seemed to use either spear wall nor shield wall. I can not stress enough on how important those skills are, even when beaing rear charged by cavalry the added 100% mass will casue so much less casaulties. In both instances avoid giving a right mouse attack order (with some exceptions of course) but try to left click move order beside enemy unit: the difference is really a night and day, and the charge bonus is not worth is in longer fights.

That's also true. Although slow, they can move around, so I should use it more often. The problem is that, like all formations, are susceptible to bugging out and that can quickly lead to defeats. For example the formations can sometimes turn 90 degrees to the side. A spagetii lined spear wall always contract into box formations when enemy disengage from the fighting.

The 90 degree bug is also present in other formations as seen here. My infantry, for no reason decide to show shoulders to the enemy cavalry. Quite annoying, it's a thing with spearwall, and the testudo formations.
http://i.imgur.com/iI0Gb5u.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/OJXBFEi.jpg?2

Before spearwall
Optimal spearwall
After enemy disengage from the fighting

If you are an archer, and your protectors suddenly contracts into a box, then you are going to piss your pants. So in the end I find formations unreliable, need quite a lot of monitoring and micro managing. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong with my formations, I don't know.

~Wille

[rzeznicc]

The problem is that, like all formations, are susceptible to bugging out and that can quickly lead to defeats. For example the formations can sometimes turn 90 degrees to the side. A spagetii lined spear wall always contract into box formations when enemy disengage from the fighting.

The 90 degree bug is also present in other formations as seen here. My infantry, for no reason decide to show shoulders to the enemy cavalry. Quite annoying, it's a thing with spearwall, and the testudo formations.
http://i.imgur.com/iI0Gb5u.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/OJXBFEi.jpg?2

Before spearwall
Optimal spearwall
After enemy disengage from the fighting

Funny that you would mention all those things - and you are right about the problems with forcing units to do what you order them to do - as I just uploaded my first in game opinion piece on spearmen vs pikemen and the problems of control, and the ways to bypass those problems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYaAaZ3JjDQ&hd=1

My conclusions are the same as yours:
-spearwall has a minumum of 5 and a hlaf rows of men, that even when manually stretched, will contract after engagement ot its default form
-I touch on the 90* oddity in the very last minutes of my video; my solution is to give move orders only in about 120deg arc in front and behind a unit, avoiding clicking on the sides. I preffer to use shortcuts and special movement orders for that
-I conclude with an opinion that pikmen, due to beeing less buggy and micro intensive are a better option then spearmen right now, with the downside ov beeing a limited availability unit