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Thread: Imperiales Śconomić (Main Thread) Update: Tweaked hordes' upkeep and stances - 28.03.15 8:20 AM GMT -6

  1. #101

    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Six versions + Two BETAs: Hordes, Roman help, 12TPY and more - 18.03.15 07:25 AM GMT -6)

    Quote Originally Posted by dmboss View Post
    It's because of Roman buildings and units. Basically all Roman units in garrisons get doubled, so the Roman rebels as well. They simply copy Romans, because they are Romans but also rebels who want to have their own state.
    Ah, thanks for clearing that up.

  2. #102

    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Six versions + Two BETAs: Hordes, Roman help, 12TPY and more - 18.03.15 07:25 AM GMT -6)

    Quote Originally Posted by dmboss View Post
    Archer, look at the graph for the BETA 2 and you'll see that recruitment cost will actually be: On level 1 -66% of default, while on level 7 it 3x the default. This means you're about to pay less for the recruitment than before, but once you get on the 5th level, the recruitment cost becomes higher, but by that time you'll already have a sufficient economy.

    Leveling up mean less upkeep = more maintainable units, but more recruitment cost which is okay later when you already make more money from less upkeep, better buildings, more recources, traits, GDP, trade...

    So I recommend you to read the BETA 2 description carefully. Basically BETA 2 makes it a bit easier for levels 1-4 and harder (but not much since you already have good economy) for 5-7 (but not much since you already have good economy).
    It's not about reading. It's about testing. Intimidating is 5, if I'm not mistaken. And from standart to BETA nothing changed for me, except for units rec., wich is doubled. And because of war on 2 fronts, vs WRE with 15+ stacks and Hunns (Damn spawning killing machines), I need to maintain lots of armies simply to protect my border regions + few armies for actually fighting back, it proves to be lill bit problematic, with overall PO penalties and corruption. Thus in the end, I'm having lots of problems upgrading/building settlements, cuz income is REALLY low, and if I raise taxes, half of my regions will rebel in 1-2 turns.

    TLDR: My economy is NOT good on 5th imp., because of every-turn fighting on two fronts.

    P.S. But as I've said, i'm up for challenge, as I'm actually using BETA2 atm for in-depth testing, it's fun to a point, and that point is me being unable to recruit any new units for regular armies

  3. #103
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    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Six versions + Two BETAs: Hordes, Roman help, 12TPY and more - 18.03.15 07:25 AM GMT -6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Go0lden_Archer View Post
    It's not about reading. It's about testing. Intimidating is 5, if I'm not mistaken. And from standart to BETA nothing changed for me, except for units rec., wich is doubled. And because of war on 2 fronts, vs WRE with 15+ stacks and Hunns (Damn spawning killing machines), I need to maintain lots of armies simply to protect my border regions + few armies for actually fighting back, it proves to be lill bit problematic, with overall PO penalties and corruption. Thus in the end, I'm having lots of problems upgrading/building settlements, cuz income is REALLY low, and if I raise taxes, half of my regions will rebel in 1-2 turns.

    TLDR: My economy is NOT good on 5th imp., because of every-turn fighting on two fronts.

    P.S. But as I've said, i'm up for challenge, as I'm actually using BETA2 atm for in-depth testing, it's fun to a point, and that point is me being unable to recruit any new units for regular armies
    What faction you're playing as?

    I can tell you that if you had started a new campaign, the recruitment costs would have been pretty low (level 1 = -66%), so you'd be upgrading building early on. Right now I'd suggest you to bear with me and wait 'till I release a stable regular version, or actually six of them, that will probably have something of both BETAS - low imperium level recruitment costs from BETA 2 and high level costs from BETA 1. That should balance things out.

    Also, I already implemented in all versions fix for vanilla's -100% upkeep trait for the Huns, coz it just made it very obnoxious to fight Hunnic spam stacks again and again.

    Also, know that the BETAs don't have the double Roman garrison and help inside, nor 12TPY, which really helps since all army movement is one third of original.


    So I'm thinking about decreasing upkeep even more and at the same time increasing recruitment costs.
    Stay tuned for an update.
    Last edited by dmboss; March 18, 2015 at 04:39 PM.


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  4. #104

    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Six versions + Two BETAs: Hordes, Roman help, 12TPY and more - 18.03.15 07:25 AM GMT -6)

    Quote Originally Posted by dmboss View Post
    What faction you're playing as?

    I can tell you that if you had started a new campaign, the recruitment costs would have been pretty low (level 1 = -66%), so you'd be upgrading building early on. Right now I'd suggest you to bear with me and wait 'till I release a stable regular version, or actually six of them, that will probably have something of both BETAS - low imperium level recruitment costs from BETA 2 and high level costs from BETA 1. That should balance things out.

    Also, I already implemented in all versions fix for vanilla's -100% upkeep trait for the Huns, coz it just made it very obnoxious to fight Hunnic spam stacks again and again.

    Also, know that the BETAs don't have the double Roman garrison and help inside, nor 12TPY, which really helps since all army movement is one third of original.


    So I'm thinking about decreasing upkeep even more and at the same time increasing recruitment costs.
    Stay tuned for an update.
    Playing as Langobards. And I'm playing with mods for doubled garrison (Tho for everyone), 12tpy and -(~)50% movement range. It helps, but with Hunns, well... Not so much.
    Everytime you destroy any of their stacks, especially when Attila is leader, they simply spawn in one of 3-4 locations on the north-east side of map. I've once managed to kill of 7 of their stacks in one turn, reducing their faction strength from 9 to ~29, only to watch it return to 8 next turn

    But as is, I'm up for more challenge. Not going to give up simply because some damn AI wants to kill me off

  5. #105
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    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Six versions + Two BETAs: Hordes, Roman help, 12TPY and more - 18.03.15 07:25 AM GMT -6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Go0lden_Archer View Post
    Playing as Langobards. And I'm playing with mods for doubled garrison (Tho for everyone), 12tpy and -(~)50% movement range. It helps, but with Hunns, well... Not so much.
    Everytime you destroy any of their stacks, especially when Attila is leader, they simply spawn in one of 3-4 locations on the north-east side of map. I've once managed to kill of 7 of their stacks in one turn, reducing their faction strength from 9 to ~29, only to watch it return to 8 next turn

    But as is, I'm up for more challenge. Not going to give up simply because some damn AI wants to kill me off
    You may as well try a versio nof Imperialem which is already 12TPY and movements are -66%. Doubled garrisons only for Romans.

    I'm working on a new big update, so it seems I'll be updating very soon.


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  6. #106
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    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (New six versions: Hordes, Roman help, 12TPY and more - 18.03.15 06:15 PM GMT -6)

    BIG UPDATE
    + Further tweaked (increased) imperium level thresholds for 5-7 levels and raised player/AI threshold ratio from 1.1 to 1.15 (the player has it more difficult than the AI)
    + Hordes now have -50% discount on non-mercenary unit upkeep
    when raiding. This allows them to keep up with the non-hordic nations. It simulates them as moving horde of great number of people who take what they see on their way. The hordes are not just armies but more importantly lots of ordinary people (migrating nations, not armies).
    + Nations like Huns in vanilla got -100% upkeep trait, now it's decreased to -20% upkeep
    + New numbers of armies per imperium level
    + New upkeep cost effects per imperium level
    + New recruitment cost effects per imperium level




    Thank you guys for your help with the BETAs.
    Last edited by dmboss; March 18, 2015 at 07:33 PM.


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  7. #107

    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Big update - 18.03.15 06:15 PM GMT -6)

    Looks great I'll post my results once I finish this campaign.

  8. #108
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    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Big update - 18.03.15 06:15 PM GMT -6)

    BTW, thank you guys, the Imperialem Œconomić just crossed 1300 downloads in the first week!
    Last edited by dmboss; March 18, 2015 at 07:43 PM.


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  9. #109

    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Big update - 18.03.15 06:15 PM GMT -6)

    Quote Originally Posted by dmboss View Post
    BTW, thank you guys, the Imperialem Œconomić just crossed 1300 downloads in the first week!
    Because its a great idea for a mod and exceptionally refreshing to see the WRE not die in 20 turns



  10. #110

    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Big update - 18.03.15 06:15 PM GMT -6)

    Update seems nice, my income grown from ~6k on mid taxes, to 12k on mid taxes. Or I think I should say, that army upkeep was reduced in comparesment to previous version

  11. #111
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    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Big update - 18.03.15 06:15 PM GMT -6)

    Oh, this looks pretty good! I haven't tried the BETA Versions, but I found the opposing recruitment/upkeep-costs behind that very interesting. I will give it a try next time I play.

    One question: Did you change also the maximum amount of Characters (Priests, Scouts, Heros) depending on the imperium level??

    And I played a couple of ingame years as the Danes on very hard with your mod and Fall of the Eagles… ufff, that was REALLY challenging in the beginning. I would like to go further in this campaign. So is the new version savegame compatible? Or are there any conflicts to expect?

    Greetings,
    miTo

  12. #112
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    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Big update - 18.03.15 06:15 PM GMT -6)

    Mate, you should posting in the main thread, that AI Faction that have less money and less army, will also effect their strengh in diplomacy table, leading the AI more vunerable to become subject under other Nations.

    Your mod may not tweak any diplomacy part, but will effect Diplomacy part and AI Behaviour even that was indirect result. Similiar like in real world situation. Money and army power do have much impact on How CAI see things.
    Last edited by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze; March 19, 2015 at 05:30 AM.
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  13. #113
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    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Big update - 18.03.15 06:15 PM GMT -6)

    Quote Originally Posted by miTo82 View Post
    Oh, this looks pretty good! I haven't tried the BETA Versions, but I found the opposing recruitment/upkeep-costs behind that very interesting. I will give it a try next time I play.

    One question: Did you change also the maximum amount of Characters (Priests, Scouts, Heros) depending on the imperium level??

    And I played a couple of ingame years as the Danes on very hard with your mod and Fall of the Eagles… ufff, that was REALLY challenging in the beginning. I would like to go further in this campaign. So is the new version savegame compatible? Or are there any conflicts to expect?

    Greetings,
    miTo
    Characters stay at the default.

    Yes it's compatible of course. But still I like to start fresh but you don't have to, you can continue your campaign.


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  14. #114
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    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Big update - 18.03.15 06:15 PM GMT -6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze View Post
    Mate, you should posting in the main thread, that AI Faction that have less money and less army, will also effect their strengh in diplomacy table, leading the AI more vunerable to become subject under other Nations.

    Your mod may not tweak any diplomacy part, but will effect Diplomacy part and AI Behaviour even that was indirect result. Similiar like in real world situation. Money and army power do have much impact on How CAI see things.
    okay, I'll put it in the first post.

    I've seen WRE becoming client state of ERE pretty funny but kinda realistic (ERE's emperor might have more authority and power than WRE's one thus he's kinda controling the WRE as well.

    EDIT: After the last update, the economy of weak nations improved. You were complaining about the AI being vulnerable when being poor, but now after I changed practically everything in this mod, the AI is doing much better, so there's no need to making people to get rid of Imperialem when using Agressive CAI (I've read some complains from a user on your thread recently, but I'm 100% sure he wasn't using the newest version of Imperialem yet)

    Cheers Junaidi.
    Last edited by dmboss; March 19, 2015 at 06:49 AM.


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  15. #115
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Big update - 18.03.15 06:15 PM GMT -6)

    Ah i understand basicly that guys using the old version, hmm that should explain everything, i will create special post in main thread Regarding using "Imperialem Œconomić".
    Last edited by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze; March 19, 2015 at 07:24 AM.
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  16. #116

    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Big update - 18.03.15 06:15 PM GMT -6)

    Quote Originally Posted by dmboss View Post
    okay, I'll put it in the first post.

    I've seen WRE becoming client state of ERE pretty funny but kinda realistic (ERE's emperor might have more authority and power than WRE's one thus he's kinda controling the WRE as well.

    EDIT: After the last update, the economy of weak nations improved. You were complaining about the AI being vulnerable when being poor, but now after I changed practically everything in this mod, the AI is doing much better, so there's no need to making people to get rid of Imperialem when using Agressive CAI (I've read some complains from a user on your thread recently, but I'm 100% sure he wasn't using the newest version of Imperialem yet)

    Cheers Junaidi.
    I'm still using the old version

  17. #117

    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Big update - 18.03.15 06:15 PM GMT -6)

    Why is it now more expensive to recruit units the higher imperium level you are. I thought it made alot more sense that the way you originaly had it were recruitment was cheaper the higher imperium level you had since you have more man power and infastructure to draw upon.
    Last edited by Grizwald714; March 19, 2015 at 07:36 AM.

  18. #118

    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Big update - 18.03.15 06:15 PM GMT -6)

    Ummm... is this mod making my PREDICTED INCOME becoming more when i recruit soldiers???






    Quote Originally Posted by Grizwald714 View Post
    Why is it now more expensive to recruit units the higher imperium level you are. I thought it made alot more sense that the way you originaly had it were recruitment was cheaper the higher imperium level you had since you have more man power and infastructure to draw upon.
    common sense and gameplay usually conflict man... once you get powerful it will be too easy to become OP thats why i think.

  19. #119
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    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Big update - 18.03.15 06:15 PM GMT -6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizwald714 View Post
    Why is it now more expensive to recruit units the higher imperium level you are. I thought it made alot more sense that the way you originaly had it were recruitment was cheaper the higher imperium level you had since you have more man power and infastructure to draw upon.
    Here's the deal. While lowering upkeep per level, You also run out of soldiers-farmers who already own some equipment.

    Level 1 : can't maintain big army, but I can recruit farmers cheaply - levies who already own some cheap equipment, so I don't need to equip them, also they are not numerous so there's plenty of them who already have been in a combat, the rest don't need to know more than basic weapon usage.

    Level 7 : can maintain big army, but most soldiers are without their equipment, so I need to equip them. Also most veterans already serve but the rest have no war experience, so I need to provide training. Also soldiers of great empires are professionals, so their wage to join army for another campaign takes more money to persuade them to join.

    I hope this makes it clear, for more info read the notes in the 1st post.


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  20. #120
    miTo82's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Imperialem Śconomić (Big update - 18.03.15 06:15 PM GMT -6)

    Quote Originally Posted by dmboss View Post
    Here's the deal. While lowering upkeep per level, You also run out of soldiers-farmers who already own some equipment.

    Level 1 : can't maintain big army, but I can recruit farmers cheaply - levies who already own some cheap equipment, so I don't need to equip them, also they are not numerous so there's plenty of them who already have been in a combat, the rest don't need to know more than basic weapon usage.

    Level 7 : can maintain big army, but most soldiers are without their equipment, so I need to equip them. Also most veterans already serve but the rest have no war experience, so I need to provide training. Also soldiers of great empires are professionals, so their wage to join army for another campaign takes more money to persuade them to join.

    The logical problem here is, that even in big empires it is possible to recruit cheap farmers and levies who own their own (poor) equipment. So, why is it more expensive to recruit them than in a small barbarian kingdom??
    AND, I think professional soldiers would like to get payed better, because they are… professionals =)

    The most logical way to manage this is to adjust the recruitment and upkeep costs of every unit separately (poor level 1 levy-units are cheap and need low upkeep… high tier 3 elite soldiers are expensive to recruit (need expensive armor, weapons and training) and have high upkeep, because they want to get payed better than a normal levy). Unattached from the imperium level.

    But this way goes straight against your idea of this mod… Anyhow I like your mod a lot because of the challenge it brings to the game. Even when this system sounds not very logical to me, I will play with your mod, just because this is just a game and it’s more fun than without!

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