Imperiales Śconomić (Main Thread) Update: Tweaked hordes' upkeep and stances - 28.03.15 8:20 AM GMT -6
pron. [imperiales oikonomiai]
LAST UPDATE:
Tweaked hordes' upkeep and stances - March 28th 8:20 AM (GMT -6)
+ Hordes now have -66% upkeep costs. This allows them to keep up with the non-hordic nations. It simulates them as moving horde of great number of people who take what they see on their way. The hordes are not just armies but more importantly lots of ordinary people (migrating nations, not armies).
+ Hordes also have -80% upkeep costs when raiding.
+ The Huns vanilla trait -100% upkeep changed to -10%. They now have much lower upkeep already because they are hordes.
Every update is a step forward. I appologise for the high frequency of the updates lately as well as for quite the differences the various updates have from the previous ones. It's all part of the process of finding the right way.
Savegame compatible as always.
HEY!
This mod is something new and I think some of you might like the idea.
The IMPERIALES ŒCONOMIĆ is rather a small mod which makes rather a big difference in the campaign. It is purelly focused on economy part of the campaign, tightly bound with the military. Unfortunatelly, the game doesn't and won't ever provide the "other" aspects and factors of economy other than what is already in the game. How powerful and rich a nation becomes depends also on thing such as national pride, technological advance (not that kind already present) and efectiveness. One sword took barbarians to manufacture the same time, effort and money as did to the Romans five of them. The key factor is efectiveness. Other aspect of success is the power. Power grows slowly, but once it does it increases exponentially or fall. That depends on the will of the holder and as always on a bit of luck. The world is not and never been a fair place, actually the unfairness took a major part in every major event throughout our history. One, who suffered unfairness served as a springboard for others. That's life.
Here's a short but great video decription of the mod provided by youtuber Total War: Ashings. Check it out!
The point of this mod is to create a different campaign. The one where poor and insignificant nations are poor and insignificant while great and powerful nations are ...you guessed it.. great and powerful. You might ask: „Why do we have to pay more while other pay less?“. I answer: „Because your nation is not to be trusted, respected and your currency, while still being gold or silver, is either mixed with something else or plain simply we like to bully smaller nations.“ Build your empire through pain, blood and sweat, because life is hard. Only the best become winners.
HERE IS A TABLE AND 3 GRAPHS SHOWING THE SUMMARY OF WHAT THIS MOD DOES:
As you can see, the thresholds are different from the default ones as well. No matter what nation you choose, either it's a small barbarian one or a big one like WRE or Sassanids, you start mostly with negative income which forces you to either conquer right on or disband some of your forces. It's up to you. Also, it's not as easy to get to the next level just by researching one or two techs. The start of the campaign is hard, but remember, other factions are struggling as well.
The recruitment slots are listed here without building or any other effects or traits (general, faction, event,...), so in reality you can have more. Regarding the recruitment costs - low level faction simply already have sufficient amount of equipment and skill for a small army, but high level faction has to manufacture tons of new pieces of equipment and train **** amount of men. This makes the high level faction pay more. HERE ARE TWO OF MY POSTS AS AN ANSWER TO ONE OF THE MOD SUPPORTERS ON THIS TOPIC:
Originally Posted by dmboss
I was reffering to the equipment just because if you need let's say 50000 men in your army and every second man (25000) already owns the equipment, you save a lot of money.
But if you need let's say 100000 men of which those 25000 already owns the equipment, you're gonna have to pay for the 75000 pieces of equipment, which is waay more, thus the higher recruitment costs.
Originally Posted by dmboss
As a horde, you're supposed to migrate and settle. That's the reason why you have to save some money before you do. When being a horde you're supposed to sack and raid to earn money and this looted money you need to save for the future. Once you have a sufficient amount, then you may settle.
People don't realize that in that time peoples have been migrating. The climate changes, the Hunnic and other nomadic nation's invasions. All this made people to go south. And that's the reason why CA has put hordes in the game, but they should have made them the main feature, but it's not.
It wouldn't be historically realistic if you could beat the hordes like nothing. Remember that these are not only soldiers, but also hundreds of thousands of common people traveling with them and they need to find a place to settle down. Why Vandals, a germanic tribe, went all the way to Africa and took Carthage? Because there was a chaos in the north. Osthrogoths found their land in Italy, Visigoths in Spain... You name it.
I made this mod the way that even tons of money can be spend in a second. Remember, having lots of money or just a little is irrelevant. More powerful thing is the economy.
WHAT'S NOT LISTED IN THE TABLE AND THE GRAPHS:
All hordes have -66% upkeep cost and -80% when raiding. This allows them to keep up with the non-hordic nations. It simulates them as moving horde of great number of people who take what they see on their way. The hordes are not just armies but more importantly lots of ordinary people (migrating nations, not armies).
Because of the economy tweaks the Diplomacy is also affected by the Strength of a nation. Weaker nations become more vulnerable to subjugation by stronger ones, which is okay and kinda makes creating empires a little bit less bloody process.
Nations such as Huns in vanilla had a -100% upkeep trait, now the effect of this trait is decreased to -10% upkeep. They're hordes already so they already have much lower upkeep.
Eastern Roman Empire in vanilla had 5% interest trait, now it's decreased to 2%.
12 turns per year versions got these effects (only affects the 12TPY variants of this mod):
Movement ranges for armies and navies cut in half (-50%), in older versions they were -66% (to compensate 12TPY obviously), but it was too much for the AI to handle.
Buildings times are 3 times longer.
Building costs are 2 times higher, because you gain 3x more income while it's being built. So, why the cost are not 3x but are 2x? Because it was too expensive to build anything when trying 3x.
Research times are 3 times longer.
Research costs are 3 times higher. Because the imperium levels are affected directly by the research advance, the costs are higher to compensate for the 12 turns per year. Also because in one year of campaign you get 3x the income you'd get in 4 turns in the standard 4TPY campaign.
Character experience is gained 3 times slower.
Climate changes are 3 times slower.
Events happen after 3 times more turns.
Officers stay in the offices for 2 years (same as 4TPY vanilla), that means 24 turns (4TPY vanilla's 8 turns).
Yes, the first imperium level is really tough and some barbarian factions get two armies at start, but either you'll disband some of them, or attend to conquer new territory early on, or they'll simply start deserting (attrition) once you run out of money. But don't worry, first imperium level's life is short and it's pretty easy to get to the second level relatively soon. I simply don't want the very weakest factions to have free armies. Now EVERY faction starts and develops slowly at the beginning. This rapidly decreases the factor of bad "game features" (e.g. bugs), so you won't see enemy nations get destroyed a couple of turns after the start of a new campaign. Not bad, huh?
Overall you might have already guessed right that what I'm trying to achieve here is entirely new campaign experience. Hard and challanging campaign no matter what nation you choose. The Western Roman Empire wasn't destroyed in early 400 AD but almost a century later, so now it won't be so easy to conquer the "weak" WRE. This mod also removes the cheats for AI in terms of economics. The AI now won't get any discount on units or buildings, so it's fair and also the AI is now pushed and convinced to militarily stand against you, only because it needs resources and money. I've seen totally passive AI with a MILLION coins but almost none of armies. Now it's not like that anymore.
I've already played through more than 160 turns with this mod in the Franks campaign, 60 turns in the Saxons campaign and 90 turns in the Ostrogothic campaign and to be honest, even without any other mods, it really reminded me of the Stainless Steel mod for Medieval 2: Kingdoms. I can't talk for anyone, but I've just had the best like 300 turns of campaign experience since SS 6.4 came out.
DOWNLOAD:
Breathe slowly and choose only one of the six regular versions:
Includes a little help to the both Roman empires - Doubles their garrison.
-------- GOLD Includes a mediocre help to the both Roman empires - Doubles their garrison.
Also gives them a couple of already researched technologies (to ditch Cohors as they're obsolete and stuff) and little bit of extra money at start (8000 -> 20000).
Not compatible with "12 or 24 TPY" mods (use versions below instead). Also the technology changes to the Romans require a new campaign.
------------ BRONZE 12TPY Same as Bronze, but also includes a 12 turns per year feature. Read all 12TPY effects above.
The technology changes to the Romans and 12 turns per year require a new campaign.
---------------- SILVER 12TPY Same as Silver, but also includes a 12 turns per year feature. Read all 12TPY effects above.
The technology changes to the Romans and 12 turns per year require a new campaign.
-------------------- GOLD 12TPY Same as Gold, but also includes a 12 turns per year feature.Read all 12TPY effects above.
The technology changes to the Romans and 12 turns per year require a new campaign.
THERE ARE CURRENTLY NO BETAS AT THE MOMENT.
Thank you for your cooperation regarding the previous BETAs.
INSTALLATION:
Put the .pack file in C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Total War Attila\data (default path). I recommend you to use the Mitch's mod manager instead of the vanilla launcher, because it cannot put the mods in order if you're using more than one mod.
First thing - make sure this mod is above any other mod in the manager. It is crucial for the right functionality and balance of this mod!
Second thing - ALWAYS KEEP Imperiales Œconomić above other mods! Under all circumstances!
Other than that, this mod works perfectly with lots of popular mods.
LET ME KNOW YOUR OPINIONS AND IDEAS FOR MAKING THIS MOD BETTER AND THUS HELP ME TO RAISE THIS MOD FROM SHADOW OF THE POPULAR OVERHAULS.
If anyone's willing to support and help this mod, use this image with the link to this thread as your signature.
I thank you in advance.
Banner image:
To insert a link alongside the image, highlight the image you inserted, press the "earth" button above the signature editor and paste the link.
You're going to help this mod a lot by doing this. I thank you again.
Sincerely, dmboss
ALSO, THANK YOU FOR CROSSING 1300 DOWNLOADS IN THE FIRST WEEK!
Thanks for the support guys.
The Imperiales Œconomić just hit 3000 downloads in two weeks of it's existence!
FOR THOSE WHO'RE CURIOUS, I'M PERSONALLY USING THESE MODS (in this order in the mod manager):
Imperiales Œconomić Gold 12TPY
2.5x unit sizes (personal mod)
Fall of The Eagles
More Aggressive CAI
Attila: Flags of factions (emblem mod)
To U633 from the empiretw.ru forum:
Thanks for posting my mod there, I don't speak russian, but I guess (with the help of Google Translator) you wrote some pleasant words about it there, so thank you.
Also thanks for keeping the mod updated there, even though the images are pretty obsolete by now .
Last edited by dmboss; March 30, 2015 at 07:01 AM.
Nice! i tried it with Agressive CAI and 12 turn per year and you are right! I'm scared of the Romans now (I am Langobards) they took my city and forced me to become nomad. The campaign looks much more ballanced, maybe you could make this as a submod for Radious Total War Mod. I think this is much better that DMBOSS Army Buff, please keep on working on this mod, I really would like to see it as part in Fall of the eagles or Radious!
Edit:
Maybe the default - launcher can handle it anyhow, you can try this if you dont want to use extra Software:
Rename all your used mods in the Attila\Data - Folder by the Name you want to load them:
01_Mod Number 1
02_Mod Number 2
03_Mod Number 3
[...]
I dont know if this works! I myself use the mod Manager from the link above. It is very comfortable because you can save different profiles (I have one for singleplayer and one for coop with a friend. We use different mods in our singleplayer campaigns, but the same for coop... so ist very easy to change our different Settings)
Last edited by miTo82; March 12, 2015 at 05:47 AM.
Edit:
Maybe the default - launcher can handle it anyhow, you can try this if you dont want to use extra Software:
Rename all your used mods in the Attila\Data - Folder by the Name you want to load them:
01_Mod Number 1
02_Mod Number 2
03_Mod Number 3
[...]
I dont know if this works! I myself use the mod Manager from the link above. It is very comfortable because you can save different profiles (I have one for singleplayer and one for coop with a friend. We use different mods in our singleplayer campaigns, but the same for coop... so ist very easy to change our different Settings)
Thanks, just putting a 1 in front of the filename worked.
Looks nice! Could you give some more feedback on how the campaign progresses, how the different factions are doing?
On turn 73 the Romans managed to take Uburzis and sort of secure the Danube. Jutes and Geats control a big part of Brittain (Romans are still there as well). Vandals actually took Carthage wasn't expecting that, but I'm happy.
Also I'm using the Agressive AI with this mod (Imperialem Oeconomiae is still above in the mod manager). For combat I'm using Warriors of Faith mod.
I too am playing with Franks, had to disband a few units at game start because i was loosing money, but even with double garrison mod I easily looted the closest Roman settlement and after a few turns had the first imperium upgrade and things started to improve, slowly developing my provinces and grow the army. The Romans attacked me with two full stacks, I had no choice but to retreat my forces from the only roman settlement I had captured as they were not nearly strong enough, dont understand why they choose to sack and not re-conquer, I retreated and recruited a few more units, and they ended up splitting their armies, one went south to the Alemans, the other stayed near Colonia and I took them out with my largest army in a manual battle. So I rebuilt Colonia, never saw that second army again, and continued to expand and now control Belgica region after taking out another roman full stack and capturing the most western settlement in the same turn. Awesome, playing in Hard but not using Aggressive AI. Britania is still mostly Roman, Jutes migrated and took the southernmost settlement, some other barbarian factions were wiped out unfortunately (Vandals I think), and I wish the Saxons would take some territory in Britania too, they did raid there in the beginning.
I too am playing with Franks, had to disband a few units at game start because i was loosing money, but even with double garrison mod I easily looted the closest Roman settlement and after a few turns had the first imperium upgrade and things started to improve, slowly developing my provinces and grow the army. The Romans attacked me with two full stacks, I had no choice but to retreat my forces from the only roman settlement I had captured as they were not nearly strong enough, dont understand why they choose to sack and not re-conquer, I retreated and recruited a few more units, and they ended up splitting their armies, one went south to the Alemans, the other stayed near Colonia and I took them out with my largest army in a manual battle. So I rebuilt Colonia, never saw that second army again, and continued to expand and now control Belgica region after taking out another roman full stack and capturing the most western settlement in the same turn. Awesome, playing in Hard but not using Aggressive AI. Britania is still mostly Roman, Jutes migrated and took the southernmost settlement, some other barbarian factions were wiped out unfortunately (Vandals I think), and I wish the Saxons would take some territory in Britania too, they did raid there in the beginning.
Thanks!
Your Vandals were loosers my Vandals went through Italy and conquered Carthage.
I downloaded your newer version and started a new campaign and wow. I spent whole night playing campaign with Imperialem economie and it's AWESOME!!! Only shame you didn't make it for Rome 2 a year ago, I think it would be a must have mod. I LOVE this mod and allready told that to my classmates and roommates who play Attila like crazy and they love it too!
I tried using this with both Roman empires but all of my provinces only have 1 recruitment slot. From what I read I should have at least 3, if not 4. Did I read it wrong or something?
Imperiales Śconomić (Main Thread) Update: Tweaked hordes' upkeep and stances - 28.03.15 8:20 AM GMT -6
LAST UPDATE:
HEY!
The IMPERIALES ŒCONOMIĆ is rather a small mod which makes rather a big difference in the campaign. It is purelly focused on economy part of the campaign, tightly bound with the military. Unfortunatelly, the game doesn't and won't ever provide the "other" aspects and factors of economy other than what is already in the game. How powerful and rich a nation becomes depends also on thing such as national pride, technological advance (not that kind already present) and efectiveness. One sword took barbarians to manufacture the same time, effort and money as did to the Romans five of them. The key factor is efectiveness. Other aspect of success is the power. Power grows slowly, but once it does it increases exponentially or fall. That depends on the will of the holder and as always on a bit of luck. The world is not and never been a fair place, actually the unfairness took a major part in every major event throughout our history. One, who suffered unfairness served as a springboard for others. That's life.
The point of this mod is to create a different campaign. The one where poor and insignificant nations are poor and insignificant while great and powerful nations are ...you guessed it.. great and powerful. You might ask: „Why do we have to pay more while other pay less?“. I answer: „Because your nation is not to be trusted, respected and your currency, while still being gold or silver, is either mixed with something else or plain simply we like to bully smaller nations.“ Build your empire through pain, blood and sweat, because life is hard. Only the best become winners.
HERE IS A TABLE AND 3 GRAPHS SHOWING THE SUMMARY OF WHAT THIS MOD DOES:
As you can see, the thresholds are different from the default ones as well. No matter what nation you choose, either it's a small barbarian one or a big one like WRE or Sassanids, you start mostly with negative income which forces you to either conquer right on or disband some of your forces. It's up to you. Also, it's not as easy to get to the next level just by researching one or two techs. The start of the campaign is hard, but remember, other factions are struggling as well.
The recruitment slots are listed here without building or any other effects or traits (general, faction, event,...), so in reality you can have more. Regarding the recruitment costs - low level faction simply already have sufficient amount of equipment and skill for a small army, but high level faction has to manufacture tons of new pieces of equipment and train **** amount of men. This makes the high level faction pay more.
HERE ARE TWO OF MY POSTS AS AN ANSWER TO ONE OF THE MOD SUPPORTERS ON THIS TOPIC:
Originally Posted by dmboss
WHAT'S NOT LISTED IN THE TABLE AND THE GRAPHS:
Yes, the first imperium level is really tough and some barbarian factions get two armies at start, but either you'll disband some of them, or attend to conquer new territory early on, or they'll simply start deserting (attrition) once you run out of money. But don't worry, first imperium level's life is short and it's pretty easy to get to the second level relatively soon. I simply don't want the very weakest factions to have free armies. Now EVERY faction starts and develops slowly at the beginning. This rapidly decreases the factor of bad "game features" (e.g. bugs), so you won't see enemy nations get destroyed a couple of turns after the start of a new campaign. Not bad, huh?
Overall you might have already guessed right that what I'm trying to achieve here is entirely new campaign experience. Hard and challanging campaign no matter what nation you choose. The Western Roman Empire wasn't destroyed in early 400 AD but almost a century later, so now it won't be so easy to conquer the "weak" WRE. This mod also removes the cheats for AI in terms of economics. The AI now won't get any discount on units or buildings, so it's fair and also the AI is now pushed and convinced to militarily stand against you, only because it needs resources and money. I've seen totally passive AI with a MILLION coins but almost none of armies. Now it's not like that anymore.
I've already played through more than 160 turns with this mod in the Franks campaign, 60 turns in the Saxons campaign and 90 turns in the Ostrogothic campaign and to be honest, even without any other mods, it really reminded me of the Stainless Steel mod for Medieval 2: Kingdoms. I can't talk for anyone, but I've just had the best like 300 turns of campaign experience since SS 6.4 came out.
DOWNLOAD:
THERE ARE CURRENTLY NO BETAS AT THE MOMENT.
INSTALLATION:
LET ME KNOW YOUR OPINIONS AND IDEAS FOR MAKING THIS MOD BETTER AND THUS HELP ME TO RAISE THIS MOD FROM SHADOW OF THE POPULAR OVERHAULS.
ALSO, THANK YOU FOR CROSSING 1300 DOWNLOADS IN THE FIRST WEEK!
FOR THOSE WHO'RE CURIOUS, I'M PERSONALLY USING THESE MODS (in this order in the mod manager):
.
Reply With Quote
Re: Imperialem Śconomić
(I am Langobards) they took my city and forced me to become nomad. The campaign looks much more ballanced, maybe you could make this as a submod for Radious Total War Mod. I think this is much better that DMBOSS Army Buff, please keep on working on this mod, I really would like to see it as part in Fall of the eagles or Radious!
