The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

[RedGuard]

My first game as the Saxons: took britian with no resistance, proceeded to land in Rotomagus and Turonum, no resistance. I heled the franks take out Stilcho and we proceeded to divide up gaul amongst ourselves, just after southern gaul rebelled and made the "gaul" faction. All in all the only "army" I faced was that led by stilcho which he had no chance of winning.

So second campaign as the franks, I declare war on WRE first turn. I procced to take Colonia Agrippina, and I face a woping one and a half roman armies (the same ones I fought as the Saxons) and I proceed to conquer all of gual along with caledonians and picts (the celts btw are far too agressive. irl they never had any ambitions other than to take back britain)

then now as the Sassanids I completely took over the ERE territories outside of greece/thrace before 403 AD and I haven't faced a single field army What the CA? did you again not play test your game and see how easy it is to steamroll the ai? seriously this is unacceptable. completely unacceptable. Even in BI the romans would give you a run for your money but now I feel like if this was the state of the Roman Empire irl its a wonder it didn't fall in 395 AD.

[Damocles]

Problem with the WRE/ERE is balancing it just right. If you don't get it just right, it's either too easy for the player, or too hard for the AI.

CA, being CA, managed to hit upon the sweet spot of making it both too easy for the player and too hard for the AI.

[crowe15]

Problem with the WRE/ERE is balancing it just right. If you don't get it just right, it's either too easy for the player, or too hard for the AI.

CA, being CA, managed to hit upon the sweet spot of making it both too easy for the player and too hard for the AI.

Your post makes no sense at all.

[Damocles]

Your post makes no sense at all.

I'm not sure I can make it any easier for you to comprehend. But I'll try.

1) If the WRE is buffed too much, it helps the AI, yet becomes too easy for the player (playing as the WRE).
2) If the WRE is made too weak, while it becomes more challenging for the player (playing as the WRE), it becomes too hard for the AI to cope with.

The current WRE as its set up, seems to be both too easy for the player (playing as the WRE), and too hard for the WRE AI, because they seem unable to survive longer than a few years, or defend themselves well. At the same time, if they were significantly buffed, it would be a cake walk for the player.

But I've got to ask. Are you really so challenged that you couldn't get my original intent, or were you just being snarky for the fun of it?

[Humble Warrior]

Problem with the WRE/ERE is balancing it just right. If you don't get it just right, it's either too easy for the player, or too hard for the AI.

CA, being CA, managed to hit upon the sweet spot of making it both too easy for the player and too hard for the AI.

Wouldn`t the sweet spot be making it just right for the AI and making it just right for the player? Or was that sarcasm?

[RGA]

My first game as the Saxons: took britian with no resistance, proceeded to land in Rotomagus and Turonum, no resistance. I heled the franks take out Stilcho and we proceeded to divide up gaul amongst ourselves, just after southern gaul rebelled and made the "gaul" faction. All in all the only "army" I faced was that led by stilcho which he had no chance of winning.

So second campaign as the franks, I declare war on WRE first turn. I procced to take Colonia Agrippina, and I face a woping one and a half roman armies (the same ones I fought as the Saxons) and I proceed to conquer all of gual along with caledonians and picts (the celts btw are far too agressive. irl they never had any ambitions other than to take back britain)

then now as the Sassanids I completely took over the ERE territories outside of greece/thrace before 403 AD and I haven't faced a single field army What the CA? did you again not play test your game and see how easy it is to steamroll the ai? seriously this is unacceptable. completely unacceptable. Even in BI the romans would give you a run for your money but now I feel like if this was the state of the Roman Empire irl its a wonder it didn't fall in 395 AD.

Did you really destroy WRE/ ERE and capture their capitals, or just finish capturing fringe provinces? AI seems to tend to keep its force concentrated, so with such large empires and small number of stacks, it's completely understandable that most regions are left to fend for themselves. Once you march into their heartlands, things might be different. I for once crossed the Danube with one full Hunnic stack and was immediately cornered by 3 full stacks of ERE, forcing me to retreat.

[RedGuard]

Did you really destroy WRE/ ERE and capture their capitals, or just finish capturing fringe provinces? AI seems to tend to keep its force concentrated, so with such large empires and small number of stacks, it's completely understandable that most regions are left to fend for themselves. Once you march into their heartlands, things might be different. I for once crossed the Danube with one full Hunnic stack and was immediately cornered by 3 full stacks of ERE, forcing me to retreat.

No if it were just taking like gaul/ spain etc and not fighting any armies I'd understand a little bit better even though that's still effing ridiculous. You should not be able to capture a whole modern day country from the Romans without encountering, any, I mean any resistance. Heres my campaign as the Sassanids. this is in 402 AD. Im beseiging Constantinople from land and sea and I still haven't faced a single land army, nor will I:
Id show you my saxon and frank campaign, but I deleted my saves after I'd already won far too easily. Basically all I need to do now as Sassinids to win a minor victory is wait until I get to year 425. ridiculous.

[Giant Death Robot]

Admitedly the Sassanids are pretty OP what with their myriads of client states, powerful cavalry and plentiful tribute money. Even as a player holding them at bay is hard, can't imagine the AI doing much better, never mind player Sassanid vs AI ERE.

But yes, the Roman empires are badly balanced. I get that it must be hard for the player to play as them, but I think it cripples the AI Rome too much and the big superpowers of the time (which they still are in 395 AD) end up being paper tigers, that's rather anticlimatic. They should start with more armies and better provinces, at least when AI controlled.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Admitedly the Sassanids are pretty OP what with their myriads of client states, powerful cavalry and plentiful tribute money. Even as a player holding them at bay is hard, can't imagine the AI doing much better, never mind player Sassanid vs AI ERE.

But yes, the Roman empires are badly balanced. I get that it must be hard for the player to play as them, but I think it cripples the AI Rome too much and the big superpowers of the time (which they still are in 395 AD) end up being paper tigers, that's rather anticlimatic. They should start with more armies and better provinces, at least when AI controlled.

Sassanids needs a healthy dose of Nomads!

[Antiokhos Euergetes]

Sassanids needs a healthy dose of Nomads!

That is very true Kidarites and Hephalites would be nice, but not much of an eastern map

[ray243]

Well a reworking of the recruitment system, whereby it's much harder for anyone to recruit any new units might balance the game a bit. The Romans are starting with more standing armies, but can't replace them easily. It makes the game more difficult for anyone playing because units are now previous commodities that you can't afford to waste.

You can replenish them, but training entirely new units is going to be really annoying for any player. As barbarian factions, you should have to wear the the Roman Empire bit by bit as opposed to a sudden invasion of the Empire.


One of the biggest problem I think with the Total war series is that they have not implemented campaign cost independently from upkeep cost. It should cost Roman players extra money to move troops into enemy lands because they need to pay for all the supplies. Sadly, without this game mechanic, Roman players can afford to launch invasions into enemy lands without any additional cost.

[Antiokhos Euergetes]

Well a reworking of the recruitment system, whereby it's much harder for anyone to recruit any new units might balance the game a bit. The Romans are starting with more standing armies, but can't replace them easily. It makes the game more difficult for anyone playing because units are now previous commodities that you can't afford to waste.

You can replenish them, but training entirely new units is going to be really annoying for any player. As barbarian factions, you should have to wear the the Roman Empire bit by bit as opposed to a sudden invasion of the Empire.


One of the biggest problem I think with the Total war series is that they have not implemented campaign cost independently from upkeep cost. It should cost Roman players extra money to move troops into enemy lands because they need to pay for all the supplies. Sadly, without this game mechanic, Roman players can afford to launch invasions into enemy lands without any additional cost.

You get that up and running I will be very happy

[craziii]

why don't you play as the ere or the wre on very hard? without self razing? the theme of attila is barbarian hordes wrecking the roman empires. the challenge in attila is playing as the hunts(can't settle anywhere) and the roman empires. everyone else is standard or easy.

complain about something worth while at least. nm you can't with attila.

[Cope]

why don't you play as the ere or the wre on very hard? without self razing? the theme of attila is barbarian hordes wrecking the roman empires. the challenge in attila is playing as the hunts(can't settle anywhere) and the roman empires. everyone else is standard or easy.

complain about something worth while at least. nm you can't with attila.

He has a valid point though - if you want to play as a barbarian horde to dismantle the Roman Empire, it's just way way to easy. I mean literally, I've played a number of campaigns as the Franks, Saxons, and Vandals, and I've never actually faced off against a Roman army in any of them, despite the fact I made capturing Rome my target. Playing as Rome is fairly difficult for most human players, so it hardly comes as a surprise that the AI just folds completely when faced with the Roman challenge.

What CA should probably have done is change the rules for the Roman Empire when it is being controlled by the AI - for instance by reducing the imperium penalty or giving them a much bigger base income. As we know, the AI totally fails when it is faced with a two fronted war (Rome II is evidence of this) though the guys over a D et I did a very nice job through scripted events of giving Rome as much chance as possible, not only to survive, but also to expand. I remember for instance, that the Rome AI got a free army stack spawn if its homeland was invaded as well as having greater base income etc.

You can tell that CA whacked the balance of Rome when you consider that the Empire is usually gone before Attila is even five years old. You know, the base premise of this game is kinda Attila vs. Rome...except it simply doesn't exist if you're not playing Rome yourself.

[craziii]

He has a valid point though - if you want to play as a barbarian horde to dismantle the Roman Empire, it's just way way to easy. I mean literally, I've played a number of campaigns as the Franks, Saxons, and Vandals, and I've never actually faced off against a Roman army in any of them, despite the fact I made capturing Rome my target. Playing as Rome is fairly difficult for most human players, so it hardly comes as a surprise that the AI just folds completely when faced with the Roman challenge.

What CA should probably have done is change the rules for the Roman Empire when it is being controlled by the AI - for instance by reducing the imperium penalty or giving them a much bigger base income. As we know, the AI totally fails when it is faced with a two fronted war (Rome II is evidence of this) though the guys over a D et I did a very nice job through scripted events of giving Rome as much chance as possible, not only to survive, but also to expand. I remember for instance, that the Rome AI got a free army stack spawn if its homeland was invaded as well as having greater base income etc.

You can tell that CA whacked the balance of Rome when you consider that the Empire is usually gone before Attila is even five years old. You know, the base premise of this game is kinda Attila vs. Rome...except it simply doesn't exist if you're not playing Rome yourself.

then you will immediately get people complaining about that "hidden" income. it just never ends with this kind of complain.

the real issue is how 1 settlement factions can field 3 army stacks but ere/wre with their 30 to 40 settlements can only field 7 or so stacks.

that you all should complain about and get ca to fix.

about dei's spawn script, I kinda wish all major factions got the treatment, not just the roman faction.

[Cope]

then you will immediately get people complaining about that "hidden" income. it just never ends with this kind of complain.

the real issue is how 1 settlement factions can field 3 army stacks but ere/wre with their 30 to 40 settlements can only field 7 or so stacks.

that you all should complain about and get ca to fix.

about dei's spawn script, I kinda wish all major factions got the treatment, not just the roman faction.

Well the actual solution (which would stop most people from complaining) lies in a) logistics and b) AI prioritization. In terms of upping Rome's base income or applying scripts to allow it to spawn stacks, these are just immediately feasible band aids to cover the weaknesses of the current CAI - though as you pointed out they are less than ideal since it is likely that using such methods would not only just swing Rome from being under powered to being overpowered, but they would also end up feeling somewhat contrived. The most obvious case in point here is the Sassanids who are irritatingly able to constantly spam stacks out of nowhere, regardless of how often you beat them in the field. This is almost as bad as Rome being completely unable to defend itself - it's just one extreme to another.

As far as Rome is concerned the problem, as I've already mentioned, is the fact that the AI is incapable of defending multiple fronts at once. So the obvious solution is to reduce the amount of fronts it is forced to fight on - but how? Well, an improved logistics system is certainly the first step. As of now, the central reason that the Rome AI's fold so quickly is because their enemies can run around anywhere on the map at speed without suffering any meaningful penalties which means that they can attack Rome at will anywhere they like.

In order to deal with this issue instant fleets should be removed from all factions excluding the Scandinavians and sea travel itself should be removed from all of the horde, British and Eastern factions. The Romans and the barbarian kingdoms should be able to travel by sea, but their fleets should not be instant - they should be forced to wait a turn when entering a sea tile, and doing so such also cost them a small amount of gold, maybe 200 or so. For those factions who are not able to travel by sea at all, this should only be temporary until they have managed to research the technology to do so. As far as I can imagine this relatively small change would do wonders for the CAI because it would instantly remove the interior pressure applied to the Roman factions from douchey, disgustingly unrealistic and highly irritating transport invasions. The Ebetani, Picts, Caledonians and Romano British should not be leaving the British isles in the early game to go and invade Aquitanne or northern Spain and the Alans and the Roxolani should not be using the Black Sea as a highway to Trapezos or Nicomedia. In addition, the Huns, the Quadians and the Goths should not be using the Adriatic or the Med as a gateway to Rome. Removing the early game ability for these factions to take to the sea would certainly alleviate this idiocy and would also help to relive the pressure on the Roman factions.

Secondly, CA ought really to attach a supply bar to each and every army which would behave in a similar way to integrity only it would work much faster. When you are in your own territory, the supply bar should fill up, but when you walk into enemy or neutral territory is should drop down - unless you are raiding or encamped as a horde. Once the supply bar falls below 25% capacity, your armies should start suffering morale penalties, and once it reaches zero, your army should start suffering attrition - and I mean real attrition, not losing 2 guys per turn style attrition.

These two simple changes I think would really help the CAI overall, and I have no idea why CA haven't bothered to implement them - especially the transport fleet stuff.

[Yerevan]

Well the actual solution (which would stop most people from complaining) lies in a) logistics and b) AI prioritization. In terms of upping Rome's base income or applying scripts to allow it to spawn stacks, these are just immediately feasible band aids to cover the weaknesses of the current CAI - though as you pointed out they are less than ideal since it is likely that using such methods would not only just swing Rome from being under powered to being overpowered, but they would also end up feeling somewhat contrived. The most obvious case in point here is the Sassanids who are irritatingly able to constantly spam stacks out of nowhere, regardless of how often you beat them in the field. This is almost as bad as Rome being completely unable to defend itself - it's just one extreme to another.

As far as Rome is concerned the problem, as I've already mentioned, is the fact that the AI is incapable of defending multiple fronts at once. So the obvious solution is to reduce the amount of fronts it is forced to fight on - but how? Well, an improved logistics system is certainly the first step. As of now, the central reason that the Rome AI's fold so quickly is because their enemies can run around anywhere on the map at speed without suffering any meaningful penalties which means that they can attack Rome at will anywhere they like.

In order to deal with this issue instant fleets should be removed from all factions excluding the Scandinavians and sea travel itself should be removed from all of the horde, British and Eastern factions. The Romans and the barbarian kingdoms should be able to travel by sea, but their fleets should not be instant - they should be forced to wait a turn when entering a sea tile, and doing so such also cost them a small amount of gold, maybe 200 or so. For those factions who are not able to travel by sea at all, this should only be temporary until they have managed to research the technology to do so. As far as I can imagine this relatively small change would do wonders for the CAI because it would instantly remove the interior pressure applied to the Roman factions from douchey, disgustingly unrealistic and highly irritating transport invasions. The Ebetani, Picts, Caledonians and Romano British should not be leaving the British isles in the early game to go and invade Aquitanne or northern Spain and the Alans and the Roxolani should not be using the Black Sea as a highway to Trapezos or Nicomedia. In addition, the Huns, the Quadians and the Goths should be using the Adriatic as a gateway to Rome. Removing the early game ability for these factions to take to the sea would certainly alleviate this idiocy and would also help to relive the pressure on the Roman factions.

Secondly, CA ought really to attach a supply bar to each and every army which would behave in a similar way to integrity only it would work much faster. When you are in your own territory, the supply bar should fill up, but when you walk into enemy or neutral territory is should drop down - unless you are raiding or encamped as a horde. Once the supply bar falls below 25% capacity, your armies should start suffering morale penalties, and once it reaches zero, your army should start suffering attrition - and I mean real attrition, not losing 2 guys per turn style attrition.

These two simple changes I think would really help the CAI overall, and I have no idea why CA haven't bothered to implement them - especially the transport fleet stuff.

Yes, I think you're right about those army spams being some sorts of band aid. We're now coming to a point where it has become absurd. And with the replenishment system, you have not only hundreds of battles, but hundreds of absolutely not decisive battles.

It's not surprising that those battles have been designed to last not more than 6 mins since you have so many of them imagine how long it would take to finish a campaign if they had the same lenght as in M2TW ! lol

I agree with the enhance logistic system and disapearing of instant transports. but I also think there should alredy be cuts in the king's purse.

[RedGuard]

why don't you play as the ere or the wre on very hard? without self razing? the theme of attila is barbarian hordes wrecking the roman empires. the challenge in attila is playing as the hunts(can't settle anywhere) and the roman empires. everyone else is standard or easy.

complain about something worth while at least. nm you can't with attila.

yep your absolutely right, the roman empire disintegrating within 40 turns is not a valid complaint

[craziii]

yep your absolutely right, the roman empire disintegrating within 40 turns is not a valid complaint

if it was attacked by 10+ factions, lasting that long is a damn miracle.

[Mountain_Commander]

Think I have about 48 hours into Attila at the time of this post. And I would agree its to easy to steamroll the AI. Even the Huns have been no threat in either my Jutes or Danes campaigns. Certainly not WRE. I am hoping they will work on making the AI more dynamic at some point.

The game is good and I dont like to complain. But I find myself just building something in abandoned settlements and clicking next turn most of the time. Playing on hard, and will turn it up to very hard and see if it helps any.