Zhayedan's Parthian shot bugged

[Rostam_e_Iran]

I haven't tried other units with this ability, only Zhayedans. I noticed (PS bug) in MP when I would micro these units, because the skirmish-mode imo get's your men killed even faster (i'll come to that later) and when the enemy was right behind my men sometimes they wouldn't shoot even if auto-fire was on and you had to do a forced attack (clicking on enemy, and this is another thing else I want to mention later).
I thought maybe I hadn't enabled auto-fire or disabled it by accident, so i just carried on. Then it happened again in another match and I checked to see if auto-fire was enables and it was. So i did a custom match and the same thing happened again, check bellow:
There's two matches, first one shows how they were charged without getting away. Second shows Parthian Shot bug @2:20.


It seems that if the enemy is directly behind they don't use PS. Has anyone else noticed this or is this? I hope it's fixed.

Now about the skirmish-mode. And I want to talk specifically about mounted skirmishes vs cavalry. Whenever S-M is enabled and I leave them to it hoping they will kite whoever chases them, they wait until it's too late to move away. They start to move away(run away) just as enemy cav is in charging distance and when that happens they're are caught up. Because it's a rear charge the outcome is even worse than if S-M was disabled and they took the charge from the front.
This is why If I make the decision to field these units I have to micro them, don't get me wrong though I really enjoy their style, but ovewral there are time when I need to let them work on there own. So this is something that needs to be addressed. Their distance at which S-M kicks in is too short and needs to be increased.

And finally, target focus while on the move. Say I manually maneuver some zhayedan and I want to target a specific unit, Well, you can't. Every time I target a unit and then move them manually the focused target is cancelled and whatever is nearest becomes the target. Even if auto-fire is disabled and I click on a target as soon as I move them it's cancelled and they wont shoot anything. Parthian Shot in attila is a very unique ability yet it is very limited when a player wants to take control of that unit.
I don't want to rely on S-M for 'snipping' as it's a very unreliable ability and if enemy cav comes at you 50% of the time your units will be destroyed (and this is not due to mount speed, it's to do with getting caught in the charge zone).

So these are the reason that concern me about the zhayedan:

-Ammo is limited so I want to have control of their usage = disable auto-fire
-S-M is unreliable = disable S-M and manually position them
-Parthian shot bugged (atleast sometimes) when enemy directly behind.
-If A-F is disabled, you're moving away and order them to shoot something they turn and face enemy, but if the enemy cav is close you're screwed cause turning away to run takes a couple of seconds. Makes P-S pointless.

What I would like:

-Increase the distance at which S-M kicks in.
-give a Focus target ability or button (hold cntrl+click enemy) so that if auto-fire is disabled they only shoot the ordered target whilst moving. for example: 2 cav are chasing your 2, you manually move them away, hold cntl+click on enemy target and they shoot at that target while still moving or you hold cntl+click enemy target before you move and when you do they still aim for that target. To stop simply hit back space.....something like that

[Kjertesvein]

Ahh, yes. The skirmishers of Attila. Can be a lot of fun on the campaign, but they are like a small kid who need constant monitoring. He he. A few points of importance when it comes to kiting in Attila.

Now about your video. The first thing I noticed was that your cavalry was exhausted. Being exhausted means that your already slow cavalry (75) will be reduced to 65% of it's normal speed. If you are kiting in a forest then an additional 25%. The same can be said for 12 seconds after you were close to slinger's firing range. If you stand in water, then you will be slowed by an additional 50%. As I recall you were exhausted and that in it'self is quite a toll on your skirmishers. In addition to the slowness, a charging cavalry increases it's speed just before it's about to make impact, so keep that in mind you decide to pop Precision Shot.

The stages of fatigue are:
Fresh - 0 no penalties
Active- 1000 -5% to speed - reached after about 11 seconds of running
Winded- 3000 -15% to speed, reload, melee attack - - reached after about 33 seconds of running
Tired- 6000 - 20% to speed, reload, melee attack - reached after about 66 seconds of running
Very Tired- 9000 -30% to speed, reload, melee attack - reached after about 100 seconds of running
Exhausted- 15000 -35% to speed, reload, melee attack - reached after about 165 seconds of running

Every time you position your cavalry close to the enemy, always position them with their rear end towards the enemy. It's not only a great taunt, but it makes the unit better able to run away. The reason for doing this in Attila is the longer turning speed for cavalry in Attila than was the case in Rome 2. Basically, place your cavalry with it's rear end towards the enemy when you manually move them around the map.

I hope that shines some light on the issue. Funny video though, when they don't react like you wanted to.

All that said, there do indeed seem to be bugs with the cavalry's ability to shoot it's arrows. I've noticed some of the cavalry who have 2 precursor arrows never fire their arrows at all.

​~Wille

[Rostam_e_Iran]

Ahh, yes. The skirmishers of Attila. Can be a lot of fun on the campaign, but they are like a small kid who need constant monitoring. He he. A few points of importance when it comes to kiting in Attila.

Now about your video. The first thing I noticed was that your cavalry was exhausted. Being exhausted means that your already slow cavalry (75) will be reduced to 65% of it's normal speed. If you are kiting in a forest then an additional 25%. The same can be said for 12 seconds after you were close to slinger's firing range. If you stand in water, then you will be slowed by an additional 50%. As I recall you were exhausted and that in it'self is quite a toll on your skirmishers. In addition to the slowness, a charging cavalry increases it's speed just before it's about to make impact, so keep that in mind you decide to pop Precision Shot.

The stages of fatigue are:
Fresh - 0 no penalties
Active- 1000 -5% to speed - reached after about 11 seconds of running
Winded- 3000 -15% to speed, reload, melee attack - - reached after about 33 seconds of running
Tired- 6000 - 20% to speed, reload, melee attack - reached after about 66 seconds of running
Very Tired- 9000 -30% to speed, reload, melee attack - reached after about 100 seconds of running
Exhausted- 15000 -35% to speed, reload, melee attack - reached after about 165 seconds of running

Every time you position your cavalry close to the enemy, always position them with their rear end towards the enemy. It's not only a great taunt, but it makes the unit better able to run away. The reason for doing this in Attila is the longer turning speed for cavalry in Attila than was the case in Rome 2. Basically, place your cavalry with it's rear end towards the enemy when you manually move them around the map.

I hope that shines some light on the issue. Funny video though, when they don't react like you wanted to.

All that said, there do indeed seem to be bugs with the cavalry's ability to shoot it's arrows. I've noticed some of the cavalry who have 2 precursor arrows never fire their arrows at all.

​~Wille

"I've noticed some of the cavalry who have 2 precursor arrows never fire their arrows at all." Maybe they don't have the 'shoot while moving' thingy. But on the skirmish-mode, I still think they should retreat earlier before they enemy can charge. Thing is they didn't even start running away. But yeah being exhausted isn't ideal and will take that into account.

Thanks for the tips, great insight into diminishing stats based on fatigue there .

Btw, what do think about units with Parthian Shot while under manual control (S-M off + A-F off) only shooting a selected target even when moving? Shouldn't this be in the game? As a player I'm unable to fully utilize P-S, Cause I'm either in control of movement or target focusing and never both.

[Kjertesvein]

That's a good question and is more relevant to this Total War title than any other release, due to the importance of horse archers of the Huns. It would make sense for CA to introduce mechanics or improve on the parthian shot -field. Sadly, they've reverted back to Rome 2 release in that regard.

What I've noticed is that a unit takes a long time to fire all arrows from a single volley. From the first arrow is shot to the last arrow leave the last bow. I usually make an attack command on the specific target, then once the unit have shot it's first arrow, I move the unit. Even if you turn fire at will off, the unit are still going to fire the barrage it started with, so in a sense, the horse archers lock onto the unit they ordered to attack... It feels like Orb-walking, if you have heard the term... Kinda. At the end of the day, it's a quirky method that I wouldn't take into any tournament because of the micromanagement you'll need. Rarely (or ever) do you see any skirmish composition from any of the daily tournament battle commentaries from Prussian Prince, Wolfofremus or Maximus Decimus Meridius.

EDIT: and there we have it. 6000 posts over almost 8 years.

~Wille

[Rostam_e_Iran]

That's a good question and is more relevant to this Total War title than any other release, due to the importance of horse archers of the Huns. It would make sense for CA to introduce mechanics or improve on the parthian shot -field. Sadly, they've reverted back to Rome 2 release in that regard.

What I've noticed is that a unit takes a long time to fire all arrows from a single volley. From the first arrow is shot to the last arrow leave the last bow. I usually make an attack command on the specific target, then once the unit have shot it's first arrow, I move the unit. Even if you turn fire at will off, the unit are still going to fire the barrage it started with, so in a sense, the horse archers lock onto the unit they ordered to attack... It feels like Orb-walking, if you have heard the term... Kinda. At the end of the day, it's a quirky method that I wouldn't take into any tournament because of the micromanagement you'll need. Rarely (or ever) do you see any skirmish composition from any of the daily tournament battle commentaries from Prussian Prince, Wolfofremus or Maximus Decimus Meridius.

EDIT: and there we have it. 6000 posts over almost 8 years.

~Wille

Gz on the 6k posts.

What you said is true and the micro is ridiculous. I will try to push this 'focus fire' while under manual control forward to the official forums, but I have to wait till the 3rd of next month.......got banned.

[Kjertesvein]

Gz on the 6k posts.

What you said is true and the micro is ridiculous. I will try to push this 'focus fire' while under manual control forward to the official forums, but I have to wait till the 3rd of next month.......got banned.

Ouch, hope you sort that out.

​~Wille

[ysl]

In Rome 2, parthian shot increases the firing arc to 350 degree, not 360. This might be the reason that they can't fire at enemy right behind them.

[Rostam_e_Iran]

In Rome 2, parthian shot increases the firing arc to 350 degree, not 360. This might be the reason that they can't fire at enemy right behind them.

This is strange. Parthian Shot was to turn on the saddle @180 degrees and shoot at pursuing enemy, that was the whole point and hence the name. The direction of the feigning retreat would usually be directly infront of the enemy to prevent them from getting caught up.

Anyway I've seen some individual archers in a unit shoot at different enemy units while the rest are shooting the nearest to them or the original focused unit, perhaps because those few shooting something else are not in range as the rest of unit so they shoot whatever they can. So surely each individual horse archer could shoot at the target to either side of 180 degrees. To answer my own question, i guess they would have if they could -.-, but wierd that some individual archers do as they goddamn please....the arrogance!!!

I'm hoping it's a bug and not an intended Achilles heel of ATW's Parthian Shot.

[Zhayedan]

the whole sassanid army is bugged lol
camels are bugged too.... you can literally wipe out infinite numbers of sugdian camel raiders with a single tagmata cav if they approach you one by one without losing a single man in your tagmata unit lol...

[Rostam_e_Iran]

the whole sassanid army is bugged lol
camels are bugged too.... you can literally wipe out infinite numbers of sugdian camel raiders with a single tagmata cav if they approach you one by one without losing a single man in your tagmata unit lol...

But camels have 'Scare horses' ability which is -3 moral, surely that's more OP than Tagmata.

[Zhayedan]

But camels have 'Scare horses' ability which is -3 moral, surely that's more OP than Tagmata.

scare ability means nothing
check this test replay
it's a comparison between sassanid and byzantine units... pretty much sums up how useless shock and melee sassanid units are

result:

1: a single tagmata unit beats 5 sassanid sugdian camel raider units and less than 10 men of them die (it was only due to fatigue that they lost some men, they managed to wipe out the first three camel units without losing a single man)

2: a byzantine melee infantry unit manages to beat 2 gyan avspar units and only the third charging gyan avspar manages to defeat them.

3: elite daylamite infantry and eastern armored legio are almost equal when fight head to head

4: unlike gyan avspar shock cavalry, tagmata melee cav easily manages to beat sassanid elite dailamite infantry

5: gyan avspar has even a hard time beating a byzantine camel skirmisher which is a missile unit... this is really something for the most reputed cavalry in the history lol

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php...32166214931525

[Rostam_e_Iran]

scare ability means nothing
check this test replay
it's a comparison between sassanid and byzantine units... pretty much sums up how useless shock and melee sassanid units are

result:

1: a single tagmata unit beats 5 sassanid sugdian camel raider units and less than 10 men of them die (it was only due to fatigue that they lost some men, they managed to wipe out the first three camel units without losing a single man)

2: a byzantine melee infantry unit manages to beat 2 gyan avspar units and only the third charging gyan avspar manages to defeat them.

3: elite daylamite infantry and eastern armored legio are almost equal when fight head to head

4: unlike gyan avspar shock cavalry, tagmata melee cav easily manages to beat sassanid elite dailamite infantry

5: gyan avspar has even a hard time beating a byzantine camel skirmisher which is a missile unit... this is really something for the most reputed cavalry in the history lol

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php...32166214931525

I was being sarcastic
I'll check that reply.
The reply doesn't work after patch.