[Request] Remove the unrealistic Rome II "sync" morale system

[Jin-]

CA introduced with Rome II new morale system where units lose morale every unit that is lost in battle. Often happens that you have split army in two while defending and when one side falls the other side magically knows this and whole army shatters.
I know CA made this system to quicken MP battles even if they deny it. Like whole army is in sync. Rome II and Attila are the only TW games where this bad feature is. It won't be fixed just giving the units more morale because it must be "tied" to how much units you have on the field.

In past TW games i kept troops on hold because when enemy advances i have them to send them against enemy, now it is rarely possible because these full units rout also because of magic sync morale. They stand on city center and while wall defenders fall, they disappear also.

I don't think anyone fixed this on Rome II or if there is even any requests for it, but it sure annoys me when i know i can win the battle, but i lose it for the sake of arcade battle style

EDIT: I mean that when they don't know about it, they should not rout. Same like desolate in campaign map. Why Africa rebels when Britain gets burned? Same thing.

[KAM 2150]

THis feature is acutally one of the few realistic things CA changed in morale system. There were often battles in which portion of the army was defeated and rest had to rout, especially in Phalanx combat in which phalanx often did not fought because real combat was taking place on the flanks and once your own cav was routed, you routed as it was pointless to fight on at this point.

[Ritmas]

This is so satirical

[Jin-]

THis feature is acutally one of the few realistic things CA changed in morale system. There were often battles in which portion of the army was defeated and rest had to rout, especially in Phalanx combat in which phalanx often did not fought because real combat was taking place on the flanks and once your own cav was routed, you routed as it was pointless to fight on at this point.

True yes. I probably said it not well. I understand that they break off if they know about it, but i don't like that they rout when there is no reason to it and they dont know it
And when elite troops rout because of this while enemy has weak archers left on other side of map, it is just absurd.

[Humble Warrior]

THis feature is acutally one of the few realistic things CA changed in morale system. There were often battles in which portion of the army was defeated and rest had to rout, especially in Phalanx combat in which phalanx often did not fought because real combat was taking place on the flanks and once your own cav was routed, you routed as it was pointless to fight on at this point.

I don`t think it`s that realistic. I`ve read of battles where one side of an army routed while another part of it on the other side of the map had no idea and kept on fighting. Men are not telepathic. Sure, make them rout if in sight of eachother, but not out of sight. Although, I have not noticed this mechanic happening yet, but that`s because I`ve not had any huge battles that are split far apart .

[KAM 2150]

Sure it happened, but often army routed due to total casualties like in the mechanic. Without it each unit would simply fight separate battle. Remember that only Romans used cohort system, the system we use in Total War games, most of other armies used certain unit types as a whole body, like the phalanx, hence once part of it routed, soon others routed too. Other example from siegies, once part of wall was breached, defenders were rushing from their wall sections to protect their houses and families instead of fighting where they should.

I will put it other way, in the game, without total casualties mechanic you would treat all units as separate "armies", which leads to some units fighting nearly to death simply because they are not at the moment attacked from all sides, but for example all AI units are surrounding them. So while elite units will fight for long even if army is taking big casualties, it will finally rout too as they are left behind the others.

[Jin-]

I will put it other way, in the game, without total casualties mechanic you would treat all units as separate "armies", which leads to some units fighting nearly to death simply because they are not at the moment attacked from all sides, but for example all AI units are surrounding them. So while elite units will fight for long even if army is taking big casualties, it will finally rout too as they are left behind the others.

Would love if there would be middle ground on this matter. Never liked the one unit fighting alone in middle of enemy 10 stacks like in Rome I heavy overhaul mods, but i also don't like synced morale. That's like Nazis retreating from France when they get kicked by Soviets hehe. There should be certain radius on that sync
Hopefully in future titles they progress this "total casualties" a bit further

[Ritmas]

Would love if there would be middle ground on this matter. Never liked the one unit fighting alone in middle of enemy 10 stacks like in Rome I heavy overhaul mods, but i also don't like synced morale. That's like Nazis retreating from France when they get kicked by Soviets hehe. There should be certain radius on that sync
Hopefully in future titles they progress this "total casualties" a bit further

That's quite an exaggeration, as it only happens when your units that are "in the other side of the map" only rout when it's 2units left against ~15.

[lamenam]

I wish there Lieutenants in Attila. Im playing with 44 stack unit army mod... So its kinda bummer when im having 3 sections. Vanguard, left and right flank but only 1 general in middle back.
I wish theres mod where soldiers fight really poor without Lieutenants and general mod. General can keep back at safe distance but Lietenants must lead the force. That would be awesome!

[TWCassius]

I wish there Lieutenants in Attila. Im playing with 44 stack unit army mod... So its kinda bummer when im having 3 sections. Vanguard, left and right flank but only 1 general in middle back.
I wish theres mod where soldiers fight really poor without Lieutenants and general mod. General can keep back at safe distance but Lietenants must lead the force. That would be awesome!

I would like to see a feature like that... and when you raise a new army you should pick the general from your family, nobles or lieutenents.

[Orthrus]

I wouldn't know one way or another if this is possible or not, that being said, with all logistics of making the mod set aside momentarily, I'd imagine a "simple" ( read: not intricately complex ) solution would be to attach some sort of morale penalty to any units not immune to morale shock that are within a certain distance of a routing unit; I'm sure it could even be designed so the effect intensifies the closer the unit is.

It would create an interesting twist on the rout system. If the unit right next to you falls apart, witnessing the chaos up close would have a profound effect, as opposed to a unit on the other side of the line, less so on a unit held back for reinforcements, so on and so forth. ( Also, the routing units that stray close to units held back could effect units by the sight ( a.k.a. proximity ) of the fleeing unit; First thing I think of is how reinforcing soldiers first site on arrival are the wounded and broken being taken off the field they are marching onto, would produce some sort of negative impact on morale, not enough to make the unit flee outright, and the effect would pass before/during being thrown into the thick of it. )

On paper it sounds amazing it could create a new emphasis on morale shocks, actually having to know which enemy units are vulnerable, and timing when to focus anything morale breaking at the perfect spot to create that cascading rout effect. At the same time, if a group of light infantry that are directly near a unit of your disciplined front line, while effected by witnessing the battered unit fleeing, once the unit is gone, they are refocused on the task at hand. Utilize this, and tweak the Army Losses effect to compensate for anything needing to be compensated, and ta-da. See, simple.

[rockman4417]

I wouldn't know one way or another if this is possible or not, that being said, with all logistics of making the mod set aside momentarily, I'd imagine a "simple" ( read: not intricately complex ) solution would be to attach some sort of morale penalty to any units not immune to morale shock that are within a certain distance of a routing unit; I'm sure it could even be designed so the effect intensifies the closer the unit is.

It would create an interesting twist on the rout system. If the unit right next to you falls apart, witnessing the chaos up close would have a profound effect, as opposed to a unit on the other side of the line, less so on a unit held back for reinforcements, so on and so forth. ( Also, the routing units that stray close to units held back could effect units by the sight ( a.k.a. proximity ) of the fleeing unit; First thing I think of is how reinforcing soldiers first site on arrival are the wounded and broken being taken off the field they are marching onto, would produce some sort of negative impact on morale, not enough to make the unit flee outright, and the effect would pass before/during being thrown into the thick of it. )

On paper it sounds amazing it could create a new emphasis on morale shocks, actually having to know which enemy units are vulnerable, and timing when to focus anything morale breaking at the perfect spot to create that cascading rout effect. At the same time, if a group of light infantry that are directly near a unit of your disciplined front line, while effected by witnessing the battered unit fleeing, once the unit is gone, they are refocused on the task at hand. Utilize this, and tweak the Army Losses effect to compensate for anything needing to be compensated, and ta-da. See, simple.

I'm sure at least Medieval II already works like this. Even the adviser states to try and route multiple units at once to cause a mass route. I'm not sure this feature carried over to warscape though.