Legend of legendary?

[Turumba]

Hi guys,

so i wonder what it is about the legendary difficulty. Yesterday i had a good conversation about it while streaming. Still, i can't see a difference between Very Hard (the one i used to play) and Legendary, the boni are the same for the AI and the actions, be it stupid or clever, the AI takes are the same as well (more or less of course). Pls, correct me if i'm wrong here!

Only exceptions as far as i know:

1. Manual saves are not allowed in campaign. (But it does save automaticly before and after every battle and at the end and start of every turn- so basicly where you want to save manually anyway?!)

2. Orders cannot be issued whilst a battle is paused. (I dont do that anyway... You know i'm able to bite in my toe, but i dont do it and i certainly dont need a mechanic to disable toebiting! So, whats the point?!)

Sometimes, before i start to stream, i read other streamtitles of other fellow streamers and "Legendary" seems to be a have to... and i think: woot, you guys should know better. But, maybe i'm just wrong.

So, my question is, is this just a marketing made up difficulty from CA, used by bigmouthed show offs and eaten by mainstream kids and newbees or are there actually other things happening? I'm going to be a bigmouthed show off in my next campaigns, just because viewers demands (sigh), but i really want to know.

And pls, dont come up with certain things that happend or not happend, because a reload alone can change a lot in terms of things that happend or not happend. Also, pls dont come up with "i feel like it's...", because the term Legendary is made for manipulate your feeling- which is fine, legendary is a awesome word , works as intended and it's doin a good job.

Pls share knowledge, facts and/or numbers on this topic. I really wanna know, it bothers me since CA introduce the "new" difficulty settings...

[Lugotorix]

Manual saves are not allowed at all. Only the auto save at the beginning of the turn. The rules are pretty clear and there's no way to cheat them without mods. I've completed Very Hard in HatG, with minimal re-saves but as Legend put it, I was just exploiting the siege AI, as it existed at the time. It's just asking for trouble before patch 1 if you ask me. I don't know why someone would put themselves through the pain of actually achieving victory as vanilla Odrysian Kingdom on Legendary, for example. Getting far is one thing, the victory conditions are another. It was literally impossible without stopping Attila before 445 A.D. at launch with most factions.

[master88]

pain[/B] of actually achieving victory as vanilla Odrysian Kingdom on Legendary, for example. Getting far is one thing, the victory conditions are another. It was literally impossible without stopping Attila before 445 A.D. at launch with most factions.

You really must have ALOT of time or pretty stupid to complete vanilla odrysian kingdom on legendary. That roster is so awful its not funny

[Lugotorix]

You really must have ALOT of time or pretty stupid to complete vanilla odrysian kingdom on legendary. That roster is so awful its not funny

I did it on Hard with Sebidee's Balkan mod. It would have been intolerable without a roster expansion. It's literally sado-masochism, with that all around armor rating.

[Fanest]

Very hard has -4 public order penalty - difficultly if u look in provinces public order tab, while legendary has -8, a major difference, beside all mentioned above, AI gets even more cheats from lower upkeep cost, to cheaper units, AI is more aggressive towards u etc. etc.

[Turumba]

Very hard has -4 public order penalty - difficultly if u look in provinces public order tab, while legendary has -8, a major difference,

That's pretty solid. Thank you, Fanest!

Do you have an idea where to find stats for the lower upkeep, cheaper units and other etc. etc.? It must be somewhere...

[Fanest]

Do you have an idea where to find stats for the lower upkeep, cheaper units and other etc. etc.? It must be somewhere...

It is, u can check it yourself, start campaing on leg and very hard and check same armies - i checked Sassanids armies as ERE, on very hard their general costs 412 upkeep on leg 386, savaran cataphracts on very hard cost 208 and on leg 182 etc.... - same armies not leveled. Seems upkeep cost is around 10% lower for AI on legendary.

All in all public order penalty alone is huge difference between the two so combined with all other more hidden penalties legendary is alot more harder. Im playing ERE on legendary and its really huge challenge, because i got some very bad traits attached to my Emperor as well - one trait gives all provinces -3 public order . But im managing for now, i managed to crush Sassanids (they had 12 stacks while i 2) and my life is becoming alot more easier. Beside all Sassanids and Huns im having 2 or 3 rebellions every turn is and now some African desert tribe decided to attack me again so yea its good fun

[ozzylaos]

I don't play on legendary. Too difficult for me.
The only reason is this " 2. Orders cannot be issued whilst a battle is paused."
So it's not 'marketing'. Is a useful option to enjoy the game.

[Turumba]

It is, u can check it yourself, start campaing on leg and very hard and check same armies - i checked Sassanids armies as ERE, on very hard their general costs 412 upkeep on leg 386, savaran cataphracts on very hard cost 208 and on leg 182 etc.... - same armies not leveled. Seems upkeep cost is around 10% lower for AI on legendary.

That doesnt work sadly, because those numbers are based on the general and/or the factionleader traits. I checked several time with franks on the saxons. Depending on the traits, the upkeep cost is sometimes even higher for the AI (or better for that certain AI faction) on legendary.

But, you are absolutly right about the -4 public order. And it is huge chunk. Maybe some Artifexes can tell us over the hidden ones and i guess there are a few, since there is a different. It's better to ask, instead of stubbornly repeat false statements again and again. Thank again for that! +rep

Your campaign sounds fun. I just loose slowy but surely my WRE campaign on VH and thinking about to turtle in Italy... after ~40 hours of gameplay Got to find my courage... lost it somewhere between north italy and spain.

[DeliCiousTZM]

The cyclope eye is fitting. The AI get bonuses to publicorder,upkeep,income,morale,tech,growth. Also the AI receives 1+ more recruitment which is 2+(very hard 1+) In addition there is no manual save,no free camera and no tactical map(Which are really useful for anyone who plays proper total war). The AI also enjoys higher agent success,better autocalculation vs player

Also the player gets many opposite effects, higher upkeep,lower public order etc. Lower autoresolve, lower agent success chance

Now if you are refering to AI behaviour? How the AI moves differently on Legendary, we can only speculate but odds are high that the AI is more more likely to betray you.

[Fanest]

Also the player gets many opposite effects, higher upkeep,lower public order etc. Lower autoresolve, lower agent success chance.

Upkeep for player doesn't rise with difficulty - well at least there is no difference between VH and leg in this respect

however im pretty sure that AI has lower unkeep on leg, since i tested several times Visigoth armies with ERE and Sassanid armies before that. It is true that sometimes differences are smaller than 5% but still there they are.

[Aenima]

It'd be nice if CA just explain what the differences are so we know what we're getting ourselves into. At least with RTW we eventually foundout that exact modifiers for battle difficulty, for instance, and you can find them with a simple google search. As it is no one seems to know for sure what the actual differences are in Rome 2/Attila when it comes to battle, just a broad "it gives the AI better stats." Ok...but how much better? In a game that's ultimately all about numbers it'd be great to know what we can expect with battle difficulty.

[Emperor Arcturus Mengsk]

Even though you can't check the unit stats of the enemy mid battle, you can still check their stats in the campaign map if you have a spy nearby or something to reveal some units!

Still I think in Attila the battle bonuses are not that big, in Rome 2 the bonuses were RIDICoUlous, now it seems the bonuses are huge mainly in the campaign map.

[Turumba]

The cyclope eye is fitting. Also the AI receives 1+ more recruitment which is 2+(very hard 1+) no free camera and no tactical map.

Indeed, it's fitting. A lot of guessing, but nice find with the recruitment! I will check that and will give you rep, little pussy.

@Fanest: Ja, that's a hidden one i guess, but i wouldnt wonder if your estimate is pretty close to real %. Btw: Is your trait on the emperor, which causes the -3 public order, named "tyrant"? Mine has that one too... thinking about to get rid of him.

@Aenima: Yes, i'd be.

[Fanest]

@Fanest: Ja, that's a hidden one i guess, but i wouldnt wonder if your estimate is pretty close to real %. Btw: Is your trait on the emperor, which causes the -3 public order, named "tyrant"? Mine has that one too... thinking about to get rid of him.

trait i have is called "A Byword for Cruelty" as said it causes -3 across all provinces, however it is said that u can loose negative traits if ur doing the opposite of what caused it, sadly i donno what caused it :/