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Thread: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

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    Default DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    The BBC's coverage: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-31735414
    The DoJ report itself: http://www.justice.gov/sites/default...ent_report.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by From the BBC
    He described Ferguson as a community where officials used law enforcement to generate revenue and did so disproportionately against African-Americans because of racial bias."Amid a highly toxic environment, defined by mistrust and resentment, stoked by years of bad feelings, and spurred by illegal and misguided practices - it is not difficult to imagine how a single tragic incident set off the city of Ferguson like a powder keg," Mr Holder said.
    ...

    Mr Holder identifies several of the worst abuses found in the report, including a man arrested at gunpoint after he objected to a police officer accusing him of being a paedophile without probable cause. The man lost his job because of the arrest, the attorney general said.The report also found black residents were disproportionately subject to baseless traffic stops and citations for infractions as petty as walking down the middle of the street. The justice department also outlined their findings of explicit racial bias in the ranks - including the racist emails, one depicting President Obama as a chimpanzee.
    ..
    Although some community perceptions around the death of Michael Brown may not have been accurate, Mr Holder said, "the climate that created them was all too real". He added: "Some of those protesters were right."
    Quote Originally Posted by Directly from the DoJ report
    Officers violate the Fourth Amendment in stopping people without reasonable suspicion, arresting them without probable cause, and using unreasonable force. Officers frequently infringe on residents’ First Amendment rights, interfering with their right to record police activities and making enforcement decisions based on the content of individuals’ expression.
    ...
    FPD fails to adequately supervise officers ... it collects no reliable or consistent data regarding pedestrian stops, ... In Ferguson, officers will sometimes make an arrest without writing a report or even obtaining an incident number, and hundreds of reports can pileup for months without supervisors reviewing them. Officers’ uses of force frequently go unreported, and are reviewed only laxly when reviewed at all ... uses of force that violate the law or FPD policy are rarely detected and often ignored when they are discovered.
    ...
    Frequently, officers stop people without reasonable suspicion or arrest them without probable cause. Officers rely heavily on the municipal “Failure to Comply” charge, which appears to be facially unconstitutional in part, and is frequently abused in practice. FPD also relies on a system of officer-generated arrest orders called “wanteds” that circumvents the warrant system and poses a significant risk of abuse. The data show, moreover, that FPD misconduct in the area of stops and arrests disproportionately impacts African Americans.
    ...
    FPD arrests people for a variety of protected conduct: people are punished for talking back to officers, recording public police activities, and lawfully protesting perceived injustices ... These accounts are drawn entirely from officers’ own descriptions, recorded in offense reports. That FPD officers believe criticism and insolence are grounds for arrest, and that supervisors have condoned such unconstitutional policing, reflects intolerance for even lawful opposition to the exercise of police authority.
    ...
    A month later, the same officer pulled over a truck hauling a trailer that did not have operating tail lights. The officer asked for identification from all three people inside, including a 54-year-old white man in the passenger seat who asked why. “You have to have a reason. This is a violation of my Fourth Amendment rights,” he asserted. The officer, who characterized the man’s reaction as “suspicious,” responded, “the reason is, if you don’t hand it to me, I’ll arrest you.” The man provided his identification. The officer then asked the man to move his cell phone from his lap to the dashboard, “for my safety.” The man said, “okay, but I’m going to record this.” Due to nervousness, he could not open the recording application and quickly placed the phone on the dash. The officer then announced that the man was under arrest for Failure to Comply. At the end of the traffic stop, the officer gave the driver a traffic citation, indicated at the other man, and said, “you’re getting this ticket because of him.” Upon bringing that man to the jail, someone asked the officer what offense the man had committed. The officer responded, “he’s one of those guys who watches CNBC too much about his rights.” The man did not say anything else, fearing what else the officer might be capable of doing. He later told us, “I never dreamed I could end up in jail for this. I’m scared of driving through Ferguson now.”
    ...
    Ferguson’s police and municipal court practices disproportionately harm African Americans. Further, our investigation found substantial evidence that this harm stems in part from intentional discrimination in violation of the Constitution.
    As it turns out, while Wilson may have been innocent, there's ample reason for the African American community of Ferguson to be deeply suspicious of the police department, given the racial disparities and consistent violation of Constitutional rights. It'll be interesting to see how this will shape up in the coming years, and whether or not the report will result in significant shifts in police department policy.
    Last edited by What; March 05, 2015 at 11:26 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    Or if the Police Department can afford to exist after this given changes are sometimes expensive.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    The DoJ had to find something wrong, gotta keep the Obama supporters happy after all.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    The DoJ had to find something wrong, gotta keep the Obama supporters happy after all.
    Did you even bother to read what they found or is this the usual Obama bash?

  5. #5

    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    The DoJ had to find something wrong, gotta keep the Obama supporters happy after all.
    Because it's perfectly obvious the situation in Ferguson as regards Policing and Racial tension is without flaw...
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  6. #6

    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleonic Bonapartism View Post
    Because it's perfectly obvious the situation in Ferguson as regards Policing and Racial tension is without flaw...
    There's a spectrum between "without flaw" and "worthy of DoJ documentation". What does making the discussion so binary achieve, except for artificial polarization?

    I'm certain a DoJ investigation of any police department, or indeed any professional organization, would find flaw; human beings are human beings, and if you stare at any group of them long enough and hard enough, you'll find some of them are wearing less-than-pristine underwear.

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    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    Are you suggesting their reports are fake??

  8. #8

    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by AqD View Post
    Are you suggesting their reports are fake??
    I am suggesting the findings may have been politically motivated.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

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  9. #9

    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    I am suggesting the findings may have been politically motivated.
    If you read the report, these are not unsubstantiated claims. Many of the witness reports are backed up by video evidence that directly contradict officer claims.

    In April 2013, for example, a correctional officer deployed an ECW against an African-American prisoner, delivering a five-second shock, because the man had urinated out of his cell onto the jail floor. The correctional officer observed the man on his security camera feed inside the booking office. When the officer came out, some of the urine hit his pant leg and, he said, almost caused him to slip. “Due to the possibility of contagion,” the correctional officer claimed, he deployed his ECW “to cease the assault.” The ECW prongs,however, both struck the prisoner in the back. The correctional officer’s claim that he deployed the ECW to stop the ongoing threat of urine is not credible, particularly given that the prisoner was in his locked cell with his back to the officer at the time the ECW was deployed.
    In January 2013, a patrol sergeant stopped an African-American man after he saw the man talk to an individual in a truck and then walk away. The sergeant detained the man,although he did not articulate any reasonable suspicion that criminal activity was afoot. When the man declined to answer questions or submit to a frisk—which the sergeant sought to execute despite articulating no reason to believe the man was armed—the sergeant grabbed the man by the belt, drew his ECW, and ordered the man to comply. The man crossed his arms and objected that he had not done anything wrong. Video captured by the ECW’s built-in camera shows that the man made no aggressive movement toward the officer. The sergeant fired the ECW,applying a five-second cycle of electricity and causing the man to fall to the ground. The sergeant almost immediately applied the ECW again, which he later justified in his report by claiming that the man tried to stand up. The video makes clear, however, that the man never tried to stand—he only writhed in pain on the ground. The video also shows that the sergeant applied the ECW nearly continuously for 20 seconds, longer than represented in his report. The man was charged with Failure to Comply and Resisting Arrest, but no independent criminal violation.
    In another incident captured on video and discussed below in more detail, an officer placed his gun on a wall or post and pointed it back and forth to each of two store employees as he talked to them while they took the trash out late one night. ... These written complaints reported to FPD are consistent with complaints we heard from community members during our investigation about officers casually threatening to hurt or even shoot them.
    Despite these lawsuits, it appears that FPD continues to interfere with individuals’ rights to protest and record police activities. On February 9, 2015, several individuals were protesting outside the Ferguson police station on the six-month anniversary of Michael Brown’s death.According to protesters, and consistent with several video recordings from that evening, the protesters stood peacefully in the police department’s parking lot, on the sidewalks in front of it,and across the street. Video footage shows that two FPD vehicles abruptly accelerated from the police parking lot into the street. An officer announced, “everybody here’s going to jail,” causing the protesters to run. Video shows that as one man recorded the police arresting others,he was arrested for interfering with police action. Officers pushed him to the ground, began handcuffing him, and announced, “stop resisting or you’re going to get tased.” It appears from the video, however, that the man was neither interfering nor resisting. A protester in a wheelchair who was live streaming the protest was also arrested. Another officer moved several people with cameras away from the scene of the arrests, warning them against interfering and urging them to back up or else be arrested for Failure to Obey. The sergeant shouted at those filming that they would be arrested for Manner of Walking if they did not back away out of the street, even though it appears from the video recordings that the protesters and those recording were on the sidewalk at most, if not all, times. Six people were arrested during this incident. It appears that officers’ escalation of this incident was unnecessary and in response to derogatory comments written in chalk on the FPD parking lot asphalt and on a police vehicle.
    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Symphony
    I'm certain a DoJ investigation of any police department, or indeed any professional organization, would find flaw; human beings are human beings, and if you stare at any group of them long enough and hard enough, you'll find some of them are wearing less-than-pristine underwear.
    It's not just the individuals; the entire department policy was problematic far above and beyond the norm. They virtually never reviewed video evidence, even when serious complaints were made that would warrant investigation. They regularly skirted the Constitution with department policy. For example, when they couldn't find justifiable reason to use warrants, they used a "wanted" system not found in other police departments to search and harass individuals anyway. Many of the laws on the books were easily and readily abused, like the Failure to Comply law that allowed arrest for disobeying an officer, or the Manner of Walking law that was regularly used to ticket and arrest individuals for simply walking in the street. They had extremely disproportionate use-of-force and arrest rates black versus white residents. For example, they had never used a police dog on a white resident, yet had repeatedly used them to attack black individuals, even when not suspicious or only suspected of minor crimes. The fact that they regularly sent racist language and images over work emails is just icing on the cake.
    Last edited by What; March 06, 2015 at 03:21 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by What View Post
    It's not just the individuals; the entire department policy was problematic far above and beyond the norm.
    Well, the rank of the individual will determine how much of the department they impact.

    Look, I'm not directly trying to discredit the DoJ report, and thereby downplay the extend of the issue with the FPD....I'm simply not in the position to and don't have the ammunition or expertise to do so. I'm simply pointing out that:

    1) The one poster's sarcastic retort that the FPD was clearly without flaw was uselessly binary and absurd....once subjected to that level of scrutiny, NO police department would come out unscathed....which dovetails nicely with:

    2) Once the full power of the DoJ was committed, there was a political impetus to ensure they found SOMEthing to report on....it's naive to act as if they were in a position to publish an entirely objective report.

    Was that political impetus enough to completely undermine the validity of the report? As I said, I'm not in a position to definitively say....my gut says probably not. But it's silly to pretend there wasn't any.
    Last edited by Symphony; March 06, 2015 at 03:39 PM.

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    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    I am suggesting the findings may have been politically motivated.
    Much like your unsubstantiated claim.
    Young lady, I am an expert on humans. Now pick a mouth, open it and say "brglgrglgrrr"!

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    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    I am suggesting the findings may have been politically motivated.
    Of course it's politically motivated and somewhat biased, as all findings and facts are.

  13. #13

    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    I am suggesting the findings may have been politically motivated.
    Any proof or is this just another example of your irrational and heavily biased point of view towards Obama?
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  14. #14

    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by chilon View Post
    Any proof or is this just another example of your irrational and heavily biased point of view towards Obama?
    The nature of the events that inspired the investigation would suggest that at least the boulder starting downhill is politically inspired prima facie. But, you can say that facts found are facts and investigations run are investigations regardless of how it started, also prime facie. It's a combination of the two and this can't be avoided, the latter anyway, until Phier shows otherwise. And likewise you must show that the investigation started for a reason other than politics of events if you wish it to be understood as otherwise. Because if not for politics of events, they could've just investigated Wilson and moved on instead of the department as a whole.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    The nature of the events that inspired the investigation would suggest that at least the boulder starting downhill is politically inspired prima facie. But, you can say that facts found are facts and investigations run are investigations regardless of how it started, also prime facie. It's a combination of the two and this can't be avoided, the latter anyway, until Phier shows otherwise. And likewise you must show that the investigation started for a reason other than politics of events if you wish it to be understood as otherwise. Because if not for politics of events, they could've just investigated Wilson and moved on instead of the department as a whole.
    Phier made the "suggestion" that the findings were politically motivated and not just cold hard facts.

    He needs to provide evidence to prove such an implication or else I will just continue to ignore his "suggestion" as biased BS.

    There is a big difference between a highly public event precipitating a full investigation into departmental procedure as you mention and suggesting that the findings of such an investigation are simply politically motivated and not facts as Phier suggested.
    Last edited by chilon; March 08, 2015 at 02:05 PM.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    I think it's funny that they felt they needed to include this in the report:

    Increasing a police department’s racial diversity does not necessarily increase community trust or improve officer conduct. There appear to be many reasons for this. One important reason is that African American officers can abuse and violate the rights of African-American civilians, just as white officers can. And African-American officers who behave abusively can undermine community trust just as white officers can.
    Also when you're looking at an object with one eye closed and you cover it up with your thumb, this does not necessarily mean that your thumb is larger than the object. There appear to be many reasons for this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  17. #17

    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    I think a five-second shock is a reasonable response to being urinated on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  18. #18

    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    I think a five-second shock is a reasonable response to being urinated on.
    This isn't a shock collar for a dog we're talking about. It is a less-lethal weapon. It is extremely painful and people can die from it if they have a heart condition or other medical problems. A police officer should not be using it unless absolutely necessary. It's not like the prisoner was peeing directly on the officer, either. He had his back turned to him when the ECW was used. He was peeing on the floor and a small amount happened to splatter on the officer. Even if he was peeing directly on the officer, it is not an appropriate use of force to do so.

  19. #19

    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by What View Post
    This isn't a shock collar for a dog we're talking about. It is a less-lethal weapon. It is extremely painful and people can die from it if they have a heart condition or other medical problems.
    Yeah, I've got not problem with that if that's what it takes to train a grown man not to pee on the floor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: DoJ investigation in Ferguson clears Wilson, but finds deep-seated racism and Constitutional violations within enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    I think a five-second shock is a reasonable response to being urinated on.
    I hope to all **** that's sarcastic.
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