Anyone had luck keeping factions subjugated?

**Aenima** · March 05, 2015, 11:26 AM

I've had no luck with keeping factions subjugated while playing multiple Western Roman campaigns. Almost every turn my clients always rise up against me (Quadi/Gaetuli/Caledonians) and if they stay loyal then they're quickly my enemy once a war kicks off and they refuse to join in.

Somehow I was able to actually do well when I first got the game (same difficulty, managed to be on green relations with all North African tribes, subjugated the Caledonians who were then green with me; another campaign I subjugated the Gaetuli who were green and stuck by my side) but the majority of the time I can't keep them loyal.

What's up with that?

**Aeratus** · March 05, 2015, 11:38 AM

These are the methods I think work best in managing vassals:

1. The easiest method of keeping up good relations is to share a common enemy. Since vassals automatically go to war with you, the more enemies you have, the more common enemies you have, and thus the higher the relations. So in summary, if you have a lot of vassals, just declare war on random factions to boost your relations with your vassals. Another thing you can do is keep an enemy faction controlled but not dead. That is, reduce an enemy faction to one territory, and just repeatedly sack it without conquering it, in order to boost relations with your vassals through the state of being at war and military action against a common enemy.

2. Don't initiate new wars against factions that have high relations with your vassals. The act of going to war to war triggers a relation check with your vassal and determines whether your vassal will stay with you. One workaround to this is to simply be at war with "everyone" at all times, and never initiate any new wars.

3. Assassinate leaders of vassals that have a "rebellious" trait. This trait lowers your relations with them significantly (by causing the "feeling oppressed" status), and at higher difficulties, a vassal with a rebellious leader

4. Further to the above, the best vassals are those whos faction leaders have the traits "admires strong empires," "passive," and "defensive."

5. If your vassal has a high chance of defecting due to new wars being initiated, and this cause a chain defection of other vassals, then cancel the vassal agreement.

6. Lastly, keep an army nearby the bad vassals so you can re-subjugate them later if necessary.

One last comment - the main problem I have with the vassals system is they are either for you or against you. It is not possible for them to withdraw from vassalage and stay neutral.

**Captain W. Handberg** · March 05, 2015, 11:56 AM

Vassals like gifts, I've found it to be a reliable way to ensure even the most hateful client's loyalty.

**Sharpe** · March 05, 2015, 12:25 PM

Let them rebel and subjugate them by force again.

**andreumarmas** · March 05, 2015, 04:23 PM

I won the total victory of WRE yesterday and had 14 factions subyugates without problems all above 200+ very friendly.

**gord96** · March 05, 2015, 04:29 PM

I plan on them rising up. So I can crush them and raze their cities.

**Niles Crane** · March 07, 2015, 03:46 PM

A little. Egypt is my oldest vassal and they've remained loyal, even 'liberating' my cities from rebels. The Axumites rebelled within about two years of their subjugation. They were absolutely desperate in the last campaign as my armies moved towards them and it was only because I wanted to give them a chance that I didn't raze their last city. Now they're raising hell in North Africa while my armies are all in Thrace/Italy.

**crowe15** · March 07, 2015, 05:11 PM

Diplomacy is

ed in this game.

Having friendly neighbors spontaneously attacking you.

There's no point in peaceful relations with anyone if everyone is going to attack you!

Click to view content:

So the only other option is to conquer everyone. But oh wait!..... 90% corruption! don't forget that! You want a Divine/Military triumph? Oh you gotta conquer 100-140 regions! Enjoy mass corruption sucker!

Click to view content:

91% corruption at 110ish regions. What will it be at 140?!

And I look at one of the smaller factions, like the Franks, they need 100 regions for a Divine Triumph.

Click to view content:

**Glycerius** · March 07, 2015, 07:14 PM

Only the Ebdani remained loyal for my WRE. I had the Quadi go to war with me in spite of good relations. I raze factions who break their subjugation.

**AnonMilwaukean** · March 07, 2015, 08:11 PM

Just finished a campaign as the Sassanids on Hard, and only once did a client state break off and need to be re-conquered (Aria). Tried Western Rome and had the opposite experience, and like you found that keeping subjects was pretty difficult.

I also agree with the diplomatic relations stuff, but only to a point: bear in mind that individual leaders now play more of a role in attitudes to the player, so even a nation you were dealing very well with could suddenly have a leader die and have a new leader that 'hates romans' or 'hates large empires'. The big thing in Attila is that there are a lot more moving parts and mechanics during peace-time, and it's easy to forget in these early days that the diplomacy is no longer the overly basic nonsense we had in R2. Not saying diplomacy and politics are incredible in Attila, but it's at least 'good', which means that it's a lot more complicated than R2.