Thracian Falxmen

**Darios** · March 01, 2015, 04:21 PM

i wish to bring attention to a couple of units on the roster of the Ostrogoths and Visigoths: Thracian Falxmen/Thracian Oathsworn

There have been a few threads going around discussing issues with the upgrade system and how it affects the Goths' falxmen units and I hope that the developers will take a look at that but I wish to point out that it does not make a lot of sense to refer to them as "Thracian." The Romans had annexed the last independent Thracian entity in AD 46 and while the Thracians were still distinguishable as an ethnos in AD 400, they had by then become completely Romanized (and Hellenized in some areas) and the traditional Thracian warrior (falxmen/peltast) had long since disappeared. In fact, Thracian peasants and farmers swelled the ranks of the Roman legions, especially as the Danube frontier was almost always under threat

While on that subject, the Carpians were, for a while, Rome's chief enemy along the Danube frontier. They would launch raids that threatened Rome's position in Moesia and even as far south as Greece. As late as AD 238 the Carpi were showing their indigence at Rome making a peace treaty with the Goths (and leaving them out) by stating that they were stronger than the Goths. By AD 318 the Carpi were no longer seen as Rome's major enemy in the region because the Goths had now become the most dominant barbarian entity north of the Danube. Carpian and Romanized Carpian elements continued to inhabit Dacia (along with the Sarmatian Taifali and Izyages) and more than likely even continued to raid Moesia alongside their Gothic overlords. They were last mentioned as a distinct entity by Roman writers during the 390s, continuing to carry out raids south of the Danube.

To make a minor history lesson even shorter: It would make far more historical sense to refer to the "Thracian falxmen" in Attila as "Carpian falxmen" and the same goes for the Thracian Oathsworn. It would show a historical element in the nature of the Gothic forces that moved south of the Danube and threatened the Roman position in the Balkans.

**Rostam_e_Iran** · March 01, 2015, 04:29 PM

Local peoples didn't just get up and vanish or completely lose their cultural identity. Just like the Brits, they were Romanized but still celts at heart. To say disappeared is a bit strong, I would say absorbed. I quite like how they've named them. Eitherway they're awesome warriors.

**Darios** · March 02, 2015, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Rostam_e_Iran

Local peoples didn't just get up and vanish or completely lose their cultural identity. Just like the Brits, they were Romanized but still celts at heart. To say disappeared is a bit strong, I would say absorbed. I quite like how they've named them. Eitherway they're awesome warriors.

I agree, but if the units are to be called "Thracian" then one must take into account that the Thracians had been strongly Romanized by 400 AD and any Thracian defectors in Gothic armies would have a more "Roman" complexion. If it is CA's goal to have falx wielding units in the Gothic roster then it would be wiser to refer to them as "Carpian" as they were less Romanized and still maintained elements of the Daco-Thracian style of warfare.

**KozaK101** · March 01, 2015, 05:48 PM

I would rather the Goths had more Roman style heavy infantry but alas. Though i believe roman style and goth style were not too distinc tin this time frame. I would have liked to see the goths tech advance down a path that made them very similar to the roman army.

The goths were joined by rebelling thracians but they probably didn't fight with rhomphias or falxes like their ancestors, though rhomphia like weapons are attested to in the time of Alexius Komnenos.

**EmperorBatman999** · March 01, 2015, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by KozaK101

I would rather the Goths had more Roman style heavy infantry but alas. Though i believe roman style and goth style were not too distinc tin this time frame. I would have liked to see the goths tech advance down a path that made them very similar to the roman army.

The goths were joined by rebelling thracians but they probably didn't fight with rhomphias or falxes like their ancestors, though rhomphia like weapons are attested to in the time of Alexius Komnenos.

Have you tried the Ostrogoths? Their unique faction trait allows them to recruit Roman units out of their military buildings. Just don't covert Roman military buildings when you take their settlements. Of course, recruiting Roman-style units takes long than Gothic units, but you can make your own Gothic legionary armies by playing the Ostrogoths.

**KozaK101** · March 01, 2015, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999

Have you tried the Ostrogoths? Their unique faction trait allows them to recruit Roman units out of their military buildings. Just don't covert Roman military buildings when you take their settlements. Of course, recruiting Roman-style units takes long than Gothic units, but you can make your own Gothic legionary armies by playing the Ostrogoths.

I have to give them a go certainly. It would make me happier in single player but do Roman building survive long enough? Or would i be in a rush to grab settlements?

I would have liked the ostrogoths to have a touch of that in their multiplayer roster though.

**EmperorBatman999** · March 01, 2015, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by KozaK101

I have to give them a go certainly. It would make me happier in single player but do Roman building survive long enough? Or would i be in a rush to grab settlements?

I would have liked the ostrogoths to have a touch of that in their multiplayer roster though.

I have quite a few Roman barracks buildings that I've left standing. I think I have at least three provinces capable of building Rome units. Finally, starting from the Chieftain's Hold of the Culture Building Track you can recruit Palatina Defectors, which are a solid sword infantry unit that use Roman equipment as well, and the Chieftain's Hold is part of the Goth's own barbarian building chain.

**KozaK101** · March 01, 2015, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999

I have quite a few Roman barracks buildings that I've left standing. I think I have at least three provinces capable of building Rome units. Finally, starting from the Chieftain's Hold of the Culture Building Track you can recruit Palatina Defectors, which are a solid sword infantry unit that use Roman equipment as well, and the Chieftain's Hold is part of the Goth's own barbarian building chain.

I'm aware of the defectors unit, I just would have liked to see more, however that would probably compromise the "offensive" gearing of the goth army. At least they would make the campaign army look roman.
I also wonder why someone would choose to play visigoths? Just for gardingi cav and gothic slingers?