Campaign Cavalry Problem

**Prince of Judah** · February 28, 2015, 03:10 AM

Hi UndyingNephalim. Your work is incredible. But I've noticed that cavalry is only recruitable in Lon Lon Ranch for Hyrule. This seems to be a game breaking problem. If I can only recruit cavalry in Lon Lon Ranch, and I lose it, Hyrule no longer has access to cavalry. Further, I won't be able to retrain losses to cavalry units unless i bring them back to the ranch. No doubt the AI will not do this at all.
Also, diplomacy AI is very uncooperative and requires impossibly high amounts of money in order to cede a settlement, accept a ceasefire, or give military access. When I say impossible, I mean along the range of 65,000 Rupees (or whatever the currency is.) This can only be achieved by cheating.

**Mister Scarecrow** · February 28, 2015, 04:24 AM

It make perfect sense to be able to train cavalry at a ranch no?

**HTD** · February 28, 2015, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by Mister Scarecrow

It make perfect sense to be able to train cavalry at a ranch no?

Not if the ranch is the only single place in the world where you can train cavalry.

**Mister Scarecrow** · February 28, 2015, 06:57 AM

Afaik Hyrule's horses rely mostly on imported ones from Ordona, with or without the rider. It wont be entirely nonsensical if their city dont have dedicated breeding facility (Except Lon Lon).

**Prince of Judah** · February 28, 2015, 09:01 AM

No polity in actual history and probably exceedingly few in fiction would ever rely exclusively on one settlement for the breeding and training of horses. Even if it makes sense, it is bad for gameplay as it reduces many, perhaps most battles in the campaign to being slug fests without a combined arms approach. Hammer and Anvil requires cavalry more than 2-3 units split between all my armies. What makes it more problematic is the need to bring them all back to Lon Lon in order to replenish losses, which the AI itself will not do.

**Emrys** · February 28, 2015, 09:52 AM

all factions have their strengths and weaknesses. Hyrule is more infantry focused and thus can't rely on the hammer and anvil approach. The cav is more of a supporting role, like the Roman armies used them: to chase down straggling enemies or attack on winning flanks to totally break enemy morale.

**HTD** · March 01, 2015, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Emrys

Hyrule is more infantry focused

Nope. The Kingdom of Hyrule's roster is, according to UN, designed to cover all disciplines.

**Prince of Judah** · February 28, 2015, 12:37 PM

Okay fair enough but I disagree. infantry-only factions are inherently disadvantaged and there are practically no infantry only civilizations in human history when horses were available to them.

**Sir Aroun** · February 28, 2015, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Prince of Judah

Okay fair enough but I disagree. infantry-only factions are inherently disadvantaged and there are practically no infantry only civilizations in human history when horses were available to them.

Labrynna Regime has no cav at all.

Darknuts only have "Cavalry Like" infantry (Fokka and Mazura) and not proper range units (they can get Zuna Crossbowmen Mercenaries)

**Emrys** · February 28, 2015, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Prince of Judah

Okay fair enough but I disagree. infantry-only factions are inherently disadvantaged and there are practically no infantry only civilizations in human history when horses were available to them.

Norway, Rome, Greece, saxon britain, Wales, Scotland, and the Swiss never used a lot of cavalry despite having wide access to horses. And that's just to name a few.

**Dirty Chai** · February 28, 2015, 12:53 PM

The issue here is that Hyrule Total War doesn't follow too many "rules of realism", I'm afraid.
I always find myself getting rather agitated about certain things in-game that make little sense to me, such as what you're pointing out here.
I've even argued about the use of pikes with a developer on the forum.

It's just something we have to get over, really.

**Sir Aroun** · February 28, 2015, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Prince of Judah

Hi UndyingNephalim. Your work is incredible. But I've noticed that cavalry is only recruitable in Lon Lon Ranch for Hyrule. This seems to be a game breaking problem. If I can only recruit cavalry in Lon Lon Ranch, and I lose it, Hyrule no longer has access to cavalry. Further, I won't be able to retrain losses to cavalry units unless i bring them back to the ranch. No doubt the AI will not do this at all.
Also, diplomacy AI is very uncooperative and requires impossibly high amounts of money in order to cede a settlement, accept a ceasefire, or give military access. When I say impossible, I mean along the range of 65,000 Rupees (or whatever the currency is.) This can only be achieved by cheating.

The AI is just broke, not idea what to do about that.
As for Cavalry this problem is because on of Hyrule's main mechanics was never put in. This is that in the lore the bulk of Hyrule's horses come for Ordona Province with the rest mostly coming from Lon Lon Ranch. In the campaign you would have be able to recut at least Mounted Recruits at any settelmet that can make the base infantry version of the unit so long as you stayed allies/had trade rights with Ordona (which you start with). Becuse the Ordinan horses mechanic was never put in Lon Lon became the only place to train cavalry. I thin Lon Lon was suppose to be a back up for the player if messed up their relation with Ordona, as well it would most likey be the only place to train elite cavalry (Mounted Hyrulean Knights).

**Prince of Judah** · February 28, 2015, 06:48 PM

So is HTW inherently less tactical than other mods? What kind of maneuvers can be accomplished without lots of combined arms?

**Sir Aroun** · February 28, 2015, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by Prince of Judah

So is HTW inherently less tactical than other mods? What kind of maneuvers can be accomplished without lots of combined arms?

I say it is more tactical. you can't play the fairies like the darknuts after all. As well most faction have some form of combined arms.

**Dirty Chai** · February 28, 2015, 07:49 PM

Yes, but Hyrule probably would, considering it's geography and its enemies/neighbors.
I'd say they'd use cavalry as much as the continental Europeans of France and Germany did during the Middle Ages.

**Sir Aroun** · February 28, 2015, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Bastard Feudalism

Yes, but Hyrule probably would, considering it's geography and its enemies/neighbors.
I'd say they'd use cavalry as much as the continental Europeans of France and Germany did during the Middle Ages.

They would, and in lore they do.
Restating form above.
"As for Cavalry this problem is because on of Hyrule's main mechanics was never put in. This is that in the lore the bulk of Hyrule's horses come for Ordona Province with the rest mostly coming from Lon Lon Ranch. In the campaign you would have be able to recut at least Mounted Recruits at any settelmet that can make the base infantry version of the unit so long as you stayed allies/had trade rights with Ordona (which you start with). Becuse the Ordinan horses mechanic was never put in Lon Lon became the only place to train cavalry. I thin Lon Lon was suppose to be a back up for the player if messed up their relation with Ordona, as well it would most likey be the only place to train elite cavalry (Mounted Hyrulean Knights)."

**Emrys** · February 28, 2015, 08:20 PM

You could also compare them to the Swiss. A landlocked nation surrounded by mountains with a great deal of flat land in the middle, punctuated by a plethora of rivers. Other than the gentry, horses were used as pack animals and transportation whilst the army remained dismounted and used large pikes and swords.

Or compare them to the germanic tribes of the Suebi or flemish. Both have similar geographical locations to the French, who loved their mounted warriors, but opted for infantry backed by javelin throwers and archers.

It's about the tactics adopted by the general populace, if Hyrule didn't have a tradition of mounted combat I could see the lack of cavalry to be a logical method of warfare.

As for the neighbors, that's why they have any horses at all. Ordona supplies them (as was stated), the Gerudo are more of raiders, so horses are not often fielded en masse against Hyrule from them. And the Gorons and Zora do not have horses. The Lanayru, have horses but assumably have not really fielded a large army in the past.

**Sir Aroun** · February 28, 2015, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Emrys

You could also compare them to the Swiss. A landlocked nation surrounded by mountains with a great deal of flat land in the middle, punctuated by a plethora of rivers. Other than the gentry, horses were used as pack animals and transportation whilst the army remained dismounted and used large pikes and swords.

Or compare them to the germanic tribes of the Suebi or flemish. Both have similar geographical locations to the French, who loved their mounted warriors, but opted for infantry backed by javelin throwers and archers.

It's about the tactics adopted by the general populace, if Hyrule didn't have a tradition of mounted combat I could see the lack of cavalry to be a logical method of warfare.

As for the neighbors, that's why they have any horses at all. Ordona supplies them (as was stated), the Gerudo are more of raiders, so horses are not often fielded en masse against Hyrule from them. And the Gorons and Zora do not have horses. The Lanayru, have horses but assumably have not really fielded a large army in the past.

Zora do have bigocto riders.

**Dirty Chai** · February 28, 2015, 08:26 PM

I just don't think horses would be scarce in a relatively flat land like Hyrule.

But now we're getting down to an argument where opinions are opinions and they won't budge.