Revised Diplomatic Effects - Imperium and Cultural Effects

[Augustusng]

I don't think my mod "bakes in" any diplomatic effects, except that of course your relations won't change until the end of the turn. You should see a difference when you enable/disable the mod and load an existing save.

[Shinay]

Funny thing is that ERE loves me and wont take peace for nothing!

[Shinay]

Hey mate,is this your mod?

[Shinay]

Feels Opresed LOL never seen that before

[Augustusng]

The "feels oppressed" effect usually triggers when an AI leader has the "rebellious" trait and they're your client state, as far as I know. I guess it might also trigger with that "hates rival empires" trait, but I'm not really sure. If so, that would explain the huge number there, since my mod does increase the effect of the "hates rival empires" trait.

[gregnaar]

This makes a really big difference on the campaign map, Franks got admires WRE trait and fight for them as brothers, burgundians got the hateful one (-60 cultural difference against everyone), and declaring war on everyone. Etc it makes the game a lot less predictable!
Have you considered to tweak the power effects further?
i have a few ideas:
I suppose only power counts and control/dominion wont matter, becasue my ideas mainly concern control, not dominion.
As corruption can be really punishing how about power effecting it:
(High power)
-decreases corruption
-increase loyality (in family)
-increase upkeep for troops (they will become kind of personal armies and you have to pay them more to keep them on your good side)
-increase building costs you will have to pay more from your own budget if you want anything done properly.
-decrease integrity
-decrease po
-normal tax rate

Low power:
-increase corruption
-increase loyality (not family members)
-decrease upkeep for troops (they fight for the country and you dont have to "bribe" them)
-decrease constuction costs (you have good administrative staff you dont have to remove talent in the sake of power, most of them are corrupt bastards but lets suppose they know how to get things done)
-increase tax rate (the people are happy and willing to pay more, and you lose most of it to corruption...)
-increase PO
-increase integrity


neutral power in the middle
-should provide integrity
-religious influence
-loyality for all
-small decrease for corruption
-low increase in tax

I am torn on the values, but if you are interested we could figure them out.

[Augustusng]

Sure, that sounds interesting. I guess the tricky part is balancing everything, but that shouldn't be too hard really.

[gregnaar]

So the main idea would be something like this:
if you have a smaller kingdom you want lower control: cheaper armies, cheaper constructions etc.
If you have a bigger empire you will need a lot of power to keep it together and function.
The neutral zone at the middle, is the safest.
However the extreme power/weak states should give punishing penalties, so you have to avoid them at all costs, like -10 loyalty +50% corruption -50 integrity -20 PO something that will ruin you in a few turns.
The other values dont have to be that big.
high power
-decreases corruption -10 / -15 / -20 the extreme would give penalties
-increase loyality (in family) +1/+2/+2
-increase upkeep for troops (they will become kind of personal armies and you have to pay them more to keep them on your good side) +5%/ +7,5% / +10%
-increase building costs you will have to pay more from your own budget if you want anything done properly. +10% / +20% / +30%
-decrease integrity -2 /-4 /-6
-decrease po -1 / -3 / -5

Low power:
-increase corruption +10 / +15 / +20
-increase loyality (not family members) +1/+2/+4 (good chance your leader will not have too high gravitas so you might need the boost to loyality)
-decrease upkeep for troops (they fight for the country and you dont have to "bribe" them) -5%/ -7,5% / -10%
-decrease constuction costs (you have good administrative staff you dont have to remove talent in the sake of power, most of them are corrupt bastards but lets suppose they know how to get things done) -5%/-10%/-15%
-increase tax rate (the people are happy and willing to pay more, and you lose most of it to corruption...) +2% /+5% /+8%
-increase PO +1/+3 /+5
-increase integrity +2 /+3 /+5

What do you think? If you could make a test mod and tell me how to change the values, i could play around with it. Ofc if you dont think its a good idea you dont have to do it out of kindness mate!

edit:
neutral power in the middle
-should provide integrity +1
-religious influence +1 in all provinces +1 osmosis
-loyality for all +1
-small decrease for corruption -2%
-low increase in tax +2%
-increased immigration (if its possible to add to power as an effect, so you would have a lot of -to PO if you stay in this state or you will have to increase taxes to counter the effect)
-a low increase to research +5% (if its possible to add to power as an effect)

[Augustusng]

Can you separate out loyalty between family members and others? Also, why do you have religious influence included in the neutral power level? I'd take that out, personally. Really, I somewhat like the idea behind the vanilla balance - high and low power both come with big positives, but also big negatives, while neutral influence doesn't change very much. I guess I'd have to play around with the effects and find a balance I like.

[gregnaar]

Can you separate out loyalty between family members and others? Also, why do you have religious influence included in the neutral power level? I'd take that out, personally. Really, I somewhat like the idea behind the vanilla balance - high and low power both come with big positives, but also big negatives, while neutral influence doesn't change very much. I guess I'd have to play around with the effects and find a balance I like.

These values were just out of the top of my head, i dont really think they would work well, i was just trying to give you some ideas. To be honest maybe a corruption and upkeep modifier would do the trick. I am curious what will you come up with!
I dont know if you can (separate loyalty), but my WRE emperor had a torturer trait once and it gave +loyalty in the family, so there should be an effect somewhere.

[Augustusng]

Update - Fixed the religiously tolerant/intolerant trait (had too large an effect before), and changed religious relations. I haven't gotten to changing those political power bonuses yet, sorry! I'm still not sure how I want that to work, but I'm going to add at least some of those effects in the next update.

Also, this mod and my others are now available (or soon will be) on Steam Workshop.

[Augustusng]

Updated for the Empires of Sand DLC, and added new religious entries for the new religions. You might notice that in the vanilla game, the new religions only have "religious aversion" with each other, and have no relations with any other religions, or even with themselves (no "religious affinity" for the same religion). I've fixed that here.

Oh, and I've also redone the religious relations for the Last Roman campaign. Nothing special, just copy-pasted from my other entries - but now this mod properly affects that campaign too.

[Augustusng]

Updated for the Charlemagne DLC and the White Huns patch, and cleaned up a little.

There are only some small changes for Charlemagne, mostly just changes to Tengriist relations towards other religions. There are two new entries in the cai_personality_empire_rivalry_components_tables that I'm not completely sure about (empire_cha_supported and cha_hedonism). I've done to those new entries what I did for the others in that table, but it might be weird in-game, as I'm not sure what those entries mean. If anyone with the DLC can test it out and let me know what they do, it would be great.

[Zhokar]

Well, it IS working, unlike the old version the game starts up. I will be playing new DLC stuff, any specific faction or trait/behaviour you want me to look out for? 'Weird' is a bit unspecific.

[Augustusng]

I just want to know what empire_cha_supported and cha_hedonism mean in-game. I don't want to mess with those effects unless I know what they do, and I can't really check without the DLC.

[Zhokar]

Maybe just set them to obscene values and upload it. Then someone could check that for you. I'd only have time for that after the weekend.

[Augustusng]

Yeah, that's not a bad idea. Here's a test pack if anyone wants to try it out, with those two entries set to very high values. It should mean that some AI faction leaders will suddenly have very high diplomatic bonuses/penalties with you, if they have the appropriate traits.

Imperium_and_cultural_effects_cha_test.7z

[marseu]

Helllo Augustusng,

I seen that someone was able to port War Weariness in the GC so I want to ask if it would be possible to port also this nice diplomacy descritpitons from AoC to GC.
I post a picutre so you can understand waht I'm talking about.



I think Malus and Bonuses can give player a much more clear Idea of the AI diplomatic decisions, adding immersion to the game.
Are u agree?

I'm also a fan of your EP Mod and hope soon you will realse a more definite version of that work.

[Augustusng]

Yes, something like this should be possible. It's just a matter of changing the text files, I think. That particular trait is a new one added for the Charlemagne campaign, but I imagine we could just change the tooltip text for existing traits to make it obvious what they do.

As far as EP, an update is coming in the next few days, with at least one new feature. No startpos edits yet, but those might be coming relatively soon. I guess it depends whether we can expect another DLC/patch from CA soon. We're really only missing someone to make units now, but we have team members working on the other aspects of the overhaul.

[marseu]

Yes, something like this should be possible. It's just a matter of changing the text files, I think. That particular trait is a new one added for the Charlemagne campaign, but I imagine we could just change the tooltip text for existing traits to make it obvious what they do.

As far as EP, an update is coming in the next few days, with at least one new feature. No startpos edits yet, but those might be coming relatively soon. I guess it depends whether we can expect another DLC/patch from CA soon. We're really only missing someone to make units now, but we have team members working on the other aspects of the overhaul.

This is a great news, I will wait for it.
If I may suggest don't waste your time on unit reskin cause there are so many good mods that do this(FOTE for example), just keep EP at the maximum compatibility level with those mods and concentrate on campaign aspects with your great Ideas instead.
Anyway I reapeat mine its just a suggestion.