So many broken things regarding the campaign AI + Power system

[Bouncepass]

Since Rome 2? I think you mean since Rome 1. The AI has always had problems with this. Rome 2 is actually better than Rome 1 though. They tried to implement a shogun 2 style map in this regard. They closed the map off and made it corridor based. In Rome 1, not only would the AI be off in la-la land, it might actually be really off in la-la land with all of its armies literally in the middle of no where, neither attacking or defending.

If anything, transport ships opened the campaign map up more than ever. The AI still wastes it's armies doing nothing in the middle of nowhere, or wastes it to attrition or whatever, that's the nature of the beast. The AI of Rome 1 and 2 aren't very comparable though.

Indeed. This is not a problem of ROme/Attila only.

To me, it became really evident with Shogun II that the AI has absolutely no sense for strategy and strategic value. They don't know what a capital, or an important valuable province is. For them, every settlement is just the same. They don't have a plan for historic/strategic goals. It makes the campaign really sandbox, and the AI opportunism can be fine, but eventually, you'll realize the only goal of the AI is to wreak havoc/ trouble the player, and this isn't actually new. The horde mode actually fits the CAI, the AI has been in horde mode since atleast Shogun II. Preservation, empire building, defending core provinces, the AI doesn't know these things.

The campaign should be sandbox. Shogun 2's AI was the best at empire building and as a result i don't think it is any mistake that it is regarded by many as the best in the series. The AI does understand preservation, defending core provinces, recapturing lost territory, as much as an AI can understand it, there are even references in the database to terms of that nature. The problem is that with the introduction of the province system CA couldn't just build on what they did in Shogun 2 and they haven't done anything with it since. The CAI in Rome 2 and Attila cannot handle the province system, that's why you'll never reliably see empires built.

You are right that the CAI in Attila and Rome 2 is great for horde mode, but Shogun 2's wasn't.

[crucify_ego]

And yet I seem to recall tons of people crying about how in rome2 the enemy would just camp large stacks around their capitol, and never leave. Now they hate this.

[Kahvipannu]

Does the game use same system as Rome2 in terms of how many armies one can have?

[Arksa]

And yet I seem to recall tons of people crying about how in rome2 the enemy would just camp large stacks around their capitol, and never leave. Now they hate this.

I'm not whining about them being aggressive, I'm all fine with AI being aggressive. They just give me free regions since they have no concept of defending or even holding on to their lands it seems.

[Humble Warrior]

Not good, not good at all. I had hoped the CAI would be better than this. Funny, it really does take a week watching to see what`s really happening. I ordered the game when the torches were removed (then there was this delay).
Perhaps CA will fix these issues in a Patch? Probably be a good idea to complain at CA so they actually try to fix it because they won`t if people don`t.

I have not installed the game, (it is still safely wrapped) but if I do and I find this I will certainly whine, but it needs us all, not just me.

[Bran Mac Born]

Try this. Added Hordes defending owned lands and Romans defending their own. movie format.

[Huberto]

And yet I seem to recall tons of people crying about how in rome2 the enemy would just camp large stacks around their capitol, and never leave. Now they hate this.

You can't be serious. My #1 concern with TWR2 was that the AI would never stay and defend, it would run away, jump in its magic transports and be off to who know where.

[Bouncepass]

Does the game use same system as Rome2 in terms of how many armies one can have?

Yeah, it still uses imperium but it is calculated differently. It uses research now, i can't remember if it i did in Rome 2, but if so it uses it to a greater degree now. I started a game just the other day as the alans, immediately camped and started researching, that was all I did. It was very long at all until i had reached a few imperium levels and could build quite a few armies, although i could never afford to because i hadn't really done anything. Eventually everyone else got mad at me as a result of the great power modifier and declared war on me.

[Arksa]

Yeah, it still uses imperium but it is calculated differently. It uses research now, i can't remember if it i did in Rome 2, but if so it uses it to a greater degree now. I started a game just the other day as the alans, immediately camped and started researching, that was all I did. It was very long at all until i had reached a few imperium levels and could build quite a few armies, although i could never afford to because i hadn't really done anything. Eventually everyone else got mad at me as a result of the great power modifier and declared war on me.

Nothing like researching your first tech as the Vandals (with no territories) and becoming "Imperium" after that 2 turn reseach project. So satisfying...

[Yerevan]

3) Great power. You can never lose it. Even if you have 0 provinces and 1 unit army left (I tested this). I had nothing left and I was still Imperium and everybody hated me.
I'm not sure it's supposed to work this way.


I'm really surprised this is not talked about more. The attention of the community seems to be more directed at torches and gates, which pretty much has no effect on my gaming experience when compared to working on the campaign AI. This is not just me, I've watched some good streamers play this game and make a joke out of the Legendary campaign because of how the AI is at the moment, walking through province after province with couple of stacks taking everything (for example check http://www.twitch.tv/etup currently steamrolling AIs without any challenge on Legendary).

I would be interested to know what are the goals of the individual AI factions in the game because I don't think the goals have anything to do with a) surviving b) expanding, but more about c) sack/raze everything (including their own lands if they retake them) d) obsess over chasing factions/armies across the map and e) disregard defending homeland.

Yes, great power is yotally broken. My Francks campaign (just N.N difficulty is becoming a hassle because everybody, even my ex fellow germanic neighbour factions which I never attacked and tried to stay friend with, everybody just hates me and attacks me. It's waves of armies every turn they come by two from every direction at the same time. And what is this great power they hate so ? Just a kingdom of the size of the Belgica province + Flevum and Roto-something-um which always tried to exchange goods and make friends :-(

[Carlucio]

This has been a problem since ROME II.

[Totalheadache]

Agree with the OP!

[Migi84]

Yes, I must say I was rather shocked when the Romans took Rome back from me and burned it to the ground...

Not just me then.

[jtfjtfjtf]

I'm playing Radious as the Geats and the mechanic to take away razing from settled factions is good. Though it's 420 and the winter/Attila showed up so everyone is probably now starving. And Attila burned one of my settlements to the ground. The tweaked diplomacy also seems to be helping. Power blocks have formed and are being held. At first it was the British Isles, Central Germans, Northern Germans and Vikings (the one I'm part of). I kicked the Jutes out of the alliance but then they allied with the British Isles. And then The Suebians from the Central Germans allied with the British Isles/Jutes forming a super block.

[Yerevan]

I'm playing Radious as the Geats and the mechanic to take away razing from settled factions is good. Though it's 420 and the winter/Attila showed up so everyone is probably now starving. And Attila burned one of my settlements to the ground. The tweaked diplomacy also seems to be helping. Power blocks have formed and are being held. At first it was the British Isles, Central Germans, Northern Germans and Vikings (the one I'm part of). I kicked the Jutes out of the alliance but then they allied with the British Isles. And then The Suebians from the Central Germans allied with the British Isles/Jutes forming a super block.

Wait, but isn't it a valid strategy gor settled faction to use scortched earth policy ? But I suppose it's easier to desactivate it than have the AI to use it less though....

[jtfjtfjtf]

Wait, but isn't it a valid strategy gor settled faction to use scortched earth policy ? But I suppose it's easier to desactivate it than have the AI to use it less though....

You can take that up with the mod maker. I'm having fun with my campaign.

[Arksa]

Wait, but isn't it a valid strategy gor settled faction to use scortched earth policy ? But I suppose it's easier to desactivate it than have the AI to use it less though....

first step is to make AI not seem completely hopeless. Once we can code actually competent AIs then we can start worrying about them applying something sophisticated like scorched earth.

[Osbot]

I think the biggest problem with the campaign AI, is that it doesn't have a sense of distance regarding how far it should wander from its own lands. The CAI is reactive and aggressive. If you attack it, and it can, it WILL pull everything back to try and defend. The problem is, its field armies might be 10 turns away. In 10 turns you can bring it to its knees. The CAI is in this regard a huge step up from Rome 2. Rome 2 the CAI would be oblivious to a back door invasion even if it had armies still in its empire. In Attila those armies WILL prioritize defending over attacking.

I'm not saying it's good, but it's better than Rome 2 in that regard. Like I said though, the problem is the AI has no sense of distance or doesn't consider it enough. To give you an example. Be one of the first factions to actually start attacking the WRE. They will actively and aggressively respond to you with sensible numbers.

[barry12]

I think the biggest problem with the campaign AI, is that it doesn't have a sense of distance regarding how far it should wander from its own lands. The CAI is reactive and aggressive. If you attack it, and it can, it WILL pull everything back to try and defend. The problem is, its field armies might be 10 turns away. In 10 turns you can bring it to its knees. The CAI is in this regard a huge step up from Rome 2. Rome 2 the CAI would be oblivious to a back door invasion even if it had armies still in its empire. In Attila those armies WILL prioritize defending over attacking.

I'm not saying it's good, but it's better than Rome 2 in that regard. Like I said though, the problem is the AI has no sense of distance or doesn't consider it enough. To give you an example. Be one of the first factions to actually start attacking the WRE. They will actively and aggressively respond to you with sensible numbers.

This is a good suggestion. Seeing as the AI can't be trusted to be coherent, they might as well implement a system that bans the AI from wandering a set distance from its nearest territory. Or... they could just stop pussyfooting around and simplify it. Yes, you heard me, simplify it. At the moment, it seems that the AI is over-thinking things by looking to attack cities that aren't defended and dodging the player by attacking places he won't defend or expect. Screw that.

The priority of the AI when making war needs to be ..... (wait for it) destroying its enemy! Instead of going on this incredibly "clever" rope-a-dope manoeuvre on an unguarded settlement deep in my territory and lounging around that region for years doing nothing, why not just attack my capital, kill my king and take my empire?

It's the equivalent of Hitler trying to invade England but he stops and does nothing after inexplicably attacking Banbury in the Midlands.

[crowe15]

I think they need to remove that great power diplomacy penalty.

When you get big, you suffer a lot from corruption, what's going to keep you in the green and collecting an income is trade.

It's hard/expensive to maintain good relations with factions, when most potential trading partners hate you because of -60 to -120 from CA's Great power status penalty.