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Thread: What happened to unit cohesion?

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  1. #1

    Default What happened to unit cohesion?

    I dunno, is it supposed to be this way, or is it a bug? Could go either way...
    got the game this morning, playing through my first campaign as the english, but i'm getting so frustrated by the battles.
    not that i keep losing, but that units just seem to the stupidest things

    its not the AI, at least i don't think so, the AI, both battle and camp seems to be making some pretty good moves.
    BUT
    units, when ordered to attack, will pause, then half will charge the unit, the rest won't move. when the chargers get to the enemy, they stop, losing all charge benefits, then get hacked to pieces coz the rest of the unit is elsewhere. infantry, cavalry, meh, always seems to happens. when you order units to attack, at best i seem to be able to get 1/4 of the unit properly engaged, the rest will just mill around.

    no unit cohesion. as above, but units just seem to split up randomly, and the men do their own thing. my mailed knights, chasing routers, ended up halfway across the map (and note, the unit they were chasing wasn't spread out...)

    men do their own thing. so, i'm besieged, i sally forth, my archers step up. i give the archers an order to close and fire. there's 85 men in the unit. the bulk form line, draw bows, as expected. 15 walk in the opposite direction. 2 charge the enemy they're supposed to be shooting with drawn daggers. WTF???

    as for cavalry. i've seen people complain that cav seem weak. my experience is this isn't the case. the problem is the cavalry don't charge correctly. they stop just before they get to the unit, then walk up in melee mode, with swords not lances, so they ain't getting charge bonus. the only time i've managed to get my cavalry to properly charge, they had to start from so far away, it was ridiculous

    bonus' not working properly
    i'm not stupid, i know cavalry charging spears is suicide. so, my generals guard flanked a unit of spearmen that was already engaged, and charged from behind. net result. over half my cav die. apparently, spear milia have massive spikes sticking out the back of their armour to impale rear charging horses on.

    my personal favourite...
    seems if you give an order, i.e to attack a unit, and that order gets executed, your men will just sit around and wait for the next order.
    i was attacking a city, my knights had flanked the enemy, charged the rear of some highlanders, done their thing (eventually) the clock was ticking down, it looked like i'd won. but the battle hadn't ended. i looked round to find where the last enemy unit was. it was 3 spear militia. they were standing in front of my knights. who were doing nothing, but dying, one by one. you'd have thought, at least, that if a unit was attacked, it might respond.


    as i say, i don't think this is a bug. there seems to be some overall problem with the way men in a unit work together (or don't).


    that big moan aside, the campaing side of things is awesome, the AI is good, the only thing currently annoying me is the general incompetence of my assasins. getting them to kill anything is proving difficult. but oh well.
    oh, my favourite part of the game so far. its 1180. the pope just died. the college of cardinals have just elected a german woman to holy see! i burt out laughing when i saw the pope was secretly a woman, especially as one of my own cardinals is a woman too!

    oh, and princesses...
    early on, i managed to get a portuguese princess married to my heir, and they became my allies in the process. now, i have a couple of young unmarried princes, but when my diplomats engage with a foreign princess, the option to propose marriage isn't even available, let alone be rejectable
    Last edited by the Black Prince; November 11, 2006 at 07:03 PM.

  2. #2
    Civitate
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    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    This is a well known bug and was also in the demo. Hopefully it wont be too long untill M2TW 1.1
    Under the patronage of Rhah and brother of eventhorizen.

  3. #3

    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    I've also mentioned several of these things, and people say "its a confirmed bug that the releaseday patch will take care of".

    Seeing that the releasedate was the 10th and some sega rep had apparently said that no patch was immediately planned, maybe they meant that it'll be available as soon as the game releases in inner Mongolia...some time in 2014 :p

  4. #4

    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    You may have misunderstood the notice about a patch upon release.

    Actually what was stated was that:

    "Patch 1.1 happens to be the responsibility of the dorkiest, doofus on the dev team. He stated that the patch will happen when the hottest chick in the office gives him a massage with release"

  5. #5

    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    So in other words, what you are saying is that we'll never get a patch ? :p

  6. #6

    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    Good riddance. Troops were Uber spartain trained machines in previous titles. Especialy RTW, when troops would do whatever you want on a moments notice. A little chaos to the gam can only be a good thing.

  7. #7

    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    When is the patch coming out

  8. #8

    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    Its not a matter of not doing what we want in a split second, its a matter of them never doing what we want. Units dont charge, dont engage on a broad front, dont engage with more than 10 percent of its men (im sure the "you four men go fight, the other 156 of us is going to set up camp and have lunch" scenario was quite common in the "undiciplined" middle ages)....

    I would have had no problems with having a timelag for orders to get through, misunderstanding of orders, etc etc, but the TW games dont have those elements, and to say that a rather glaring (and completely gamebreaking) bug is a good thing...well.. if i said my honest opinion about that comment, i'd probably be banned

  9. #9

    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    patch should be out on the 14th. Latest friday to coincide with the latest release.

  10. #10
    God-Emperor of Mankind's Avatar Apperently I protect
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    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    Well by the sound of Palamedes post, the patch is already finished.
    So I guess it is the same as the demo.
    The patch comes out when SEGA says so.

  11. #11

    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    Wow, is this bug common to all the copies of the game? Is everyone having this same problem, because that is horrible. I could not play the game if these things I'm reading are true.
    Life is an STD with a 100 percent fatality rate.

  12. #12

    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    Quote Originally Posted by the Black Prince
    bonus' not working properly
    i'm not stupid, i know cavalry charging spears is suicide. so, my generals guard flanked a unit of spearmen that was already engaged, and charged from behind. net result. over half my cav die. apparently, spear milia have massive spikes sticking out the back of their armour to impale rear charging horses on.
    You have to withdraw and recharge the unit, just as the AI does with the Mongols. A charge is only good until the unit stops charging. If you leave a charged cav unit standing in the mosh any spearmen not engaged turn to fight the target.

    Quote Originally Posted by the Black Prince
    no unit cohesion. as above, but units just seem to split up randomly, and the men do their own thing. my mailed knights, chasing routers, ended up halfway across the map (and note, the unit they were chasing wasn't spread out...)

    men do their own thing. so, i'm besieged, i sally forth, my archers step up. i give the archers an order to close and fire. there's 85 men in the unit. the bulk form line, draw bows, as expected. 15 walk in the opposite direction. 2 charge the enemy they're supposed to be shooting with drawn daggers. WTF???
    Not experienced that and I have just reached the "last turn" of my campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by the Black Prince
    seems if you give an order, i.e to attack a unit, and that order gets executed, your men will just sit around and wait for the next order.
    i was attacking a city, my knights had flanked the enemy, charged the rear of some highlanders, done their thing (eventually) the clock was ticking down, it looked like i'd won. but the battle hadn't ended. i looked round to find where the last enemy unit was. it was 3 spear militia. they were standing in front of my knights. who were doing nothing, but dying, one by one. you'd have thought, at least, that if a unit was attacked, it might respond.
    I had a similar experience once, I was chasing a retreating unit and one single enemy man got separated from the rest by a tree. I stopped chasing when it was clear they were faster troops, but the single man ran into the back of my unit and single handedly wiped out 30 men while they stood there not realising they were being attacked, however turning my unit to face him did seem to sort it out.

    Overall, the battle "bugs" are mildly annoying at worst, and there is an argument that they make the battle more chaotic and realistic, keeping an eye on your troops is much more important.

  13. #13

    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    if this patch fix all the bugs, ca are god

  14. #14

    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    That sounds promising TB666

    @(insert.... :

    Its a bug with the AI, so all copies are affected, yes. The degree you'll notice it is depending on how you play i guess. For me, who like to flank with cavalry, encircle, that sort of thing, the bug is rather nasty, to the point of gamebreaking. Also, you'll rarely get out the potential of your troops as they dont charge, and things like that.

    Once you hit the gunpowder age, things will really start getting hilarious. As your troops start taking damage, they'll be repositioning themselves forever and never fire a shot

  15. #15
    ProudNerd's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    topics like this, the hard truth that mtw2 was rushed is probably why spork the tester (and i use the term loosely) left. It seems like battles are going to suck when I finally get this judging by these topics. Sad.






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  16. #16

    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    Wow......thats.........awful and saddening on so many levels. Even RTW was not that bad out of the box, there were some pathfinding problems and occasionally units just flat refused to respond to orders, but wow it was not this bad at all.

    If thaqt is not patched I will not play the game.
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  17. #17
    ProudNerd's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    Quote Originally Posted by (insert clever name here)
    Wow......thats.........awful and saddening on so many levels. Even RTW was not that bad out of the box, there were some pathfinding problems and occasionally units just flat refused to respond to orders, but wow it was not this bad at all.

    If thaqt is not patched I will not play the game.
    i second that if there isn't any news about a patch tomorrow I'm canceling my order too. This topic and the dev team disgust me. They should be ashamed.






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  18. #18
    murat can's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    Quote Originally Posted by (insert clever name here)
    Wow......thats.........awful and saddening on so many levels. Even RTW was not that bad out of the box, there were some pathfinding problems and occasionally units just flat refused to respond to orders, but wow it was not this bad at all.

    If thaqt is not patched I will not play the game.

    If you dont want to play the game, dont. Im sure one person is a Big loss for SEGA. They will cry their hearts out until u decide to play the game again.


    stop moaning about problems that they will fix really soon, PATIENCE is a VIRTUE. im sure you heard this before.


  19. #19
    ProudNerd's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    Quote Originally Posted by murat can
    If you dont want to play the game, dont. Im sure one person is a Big loss for SEGA. They will cry their hearts out until u decide to play the game again.


    stop moaning about problems that they will fix really soon, PATIENCE is a VIRTUE. im sure you heard this before.
    Try reading the forums buddy the Sega reps said there is NO PLANS FOR A PATCH ANY TIME SOON and releasing a blatantly broken buggy game after waiting such a stupid amount of time is total crap in my opinion its basically false advertising! How as a fan you can say this doesn't matter and its the fans fault for buying it is totally beyond me.






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  20. #20
    Spiff's Avatar That's Ffips backwards
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    Default Re: What happened to unit cohesion?

    Where did sega say there are no plans for any patches? As far as i know, no where. It gets tiring, the forums of basically every game have at least a few people who go around claiming 'false advertising'..

    As far as im concerned the game is far from broken, so lets all remain civil and wait for official word
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