Attila vanilla battles really are bad

[romanlegion13th]

just tried Attila looked good units looked a bit plain though
played my first battle as the Saxons wow the battle felt bad really fast people broken after like 30 seconds of fighting, like i was playing a ipad game or something, i had to put it on slow-mo lol

looks like i wont be playing for a while till some good mods are out

makes you realize how much this mod makes Rome 2 great

[La Tene]

Thanks for the report - I've been waiting for more negative reports to help convince me to stick to my guns and hold out for a big discount price. I expected CA to not learn their lesson from R2 - IE: Total War arcade mode doesn't fly overall. Multiplayer R2 didn't become playable until speeds finally came down far enough. But, I'd argue DeI could be improved upon by bringing some total realism mechanic to battles ie: troops to be more capable of panic routing when flanked etc.. I think a lot of battle mods also underestimate how much damage to morale missile fire can cause even though the ancients were very focused on protecting themselves with the best shields they could make or aquire. You simply should not be able to permit missile troops in the flank or rear of a unit unloading without your troops breaking - even slinger fire - the injuries and fright alone would cause a panic route. A unit in square formation can be the exception to this rule, or, tank like troops fully clad in armor.

[KAM 2150]

Thanks for the report - I've been waiting for more negative reports to help convince me to stick to my guns and hold out for a big discount price. I expected CA to not learn their lesson from R2 - IE: Total War arcade mode doesn't fly overall. Multiplayer R2 didn't become playable until speeds finally came down far enough. But, I'd argue DeI could be improved upon by bringing some total realism mechanic to battles ie: troops to be more capable of panic routing when flanked etc.. I think a lot of battle mods also underestimate how much damage to morale missile fire can cause even though the ancients were very focused on protecting themselves with the best shields they could make or aquire. You simply should not be able to permit missile troops in the flank or rear of a unit unloading without your troops breaking - even slinger fire - the injuries and fright alone would cause a panic route. A unit in square formation can be the exception to this rule, or, tank like troops fully clad in armor.

Again, this idea would make battles even way faster. It worked like you proposed before 1.0 and battles were soo easy that you needed only single unit of heavy cav to rout entire enemy stack once AI units were locked in melee.



Anyway, first version of DeI combat for Attila is out in Attila mod section

[Sharpe_116]

This is an exaggeration, the battle speeds are comparable to vanilla Rome 2.

[KAM 2150]

This is an exaggeration, the battle speeds are comparable to vanilla Rome 2.

Nope, battles are much faster in terms of kill rates. They seem to have the same speed, but only because units fight up to 80-95% of casualties and come back to combat dozen times.

[romanlegion13th]

yeah unless you want fast battles with troops routing, its just not fun once you have played this mod you cant go back atall makes your troops seem weak, ive only done 200 hours on rome 2 so going to sick to rome for a while then when some good mods come out will try attila
yeah archers sont seem to do much damage, in vanilla attila archers wipe out your troops in seconds lol thats not good

[Cromagnon2]

Fast battles and fast click unit abilities is a poor excuse for not having a good tactical AI. CA has not made much progress in this aspect. I can remember the first MTW years ago the tactical aspect and suspense of that game was far better. mainly because the battle map was much bigger and you had to choose the location to engage your opponent with greater care. It is a sad conclusion that there is not much progress.

[MisterClever]

Fast battles and fast click unit abilities is a poor excuse for not having a good tactical AI. CA has not made much progress in this aspect. I can remember the first MTW years ago the tactical aspect and suspense of that game was far better. mainly because the battle map was much bigger and you had to choose the location to engage your opponent with greater care. It is a sad conclusion that there is not much progress.

They really need to learn their lesson that making them game an arcade is dumbing down their product. I'm waiting for the DEI team to release some mods for Attila

[FlashHeart07]

But I know Dresden and the team behind Constantine is going to work on a mod for Attila so perhaps there is hope somewhere down the road.

[Woden329]

I played an Attila campaign without any of the mods that are already out and had very mixed feelings. I came into Attila expecting it to be just a re-skinned Rome but ended up really liking the Campaign map and politics but like the OP the battles were a complete let down. I tried another campaign with Radious's new Attila mod on (there are other good battle only mods out too) and the change in pace of the battle really made me love Attila. The battle map AI while far from flawless is much better than Rome 2 and that showed a lot more on slower battles; the BAI has moved from Antiochus the III to Crassus skill wise imo.

I’d suggest trying a battle balance mod to remove the arcadeyness of the more recent Total Wars.

Just saw Kam's post, can't wait try that. You and the rest of the DeI team are incredible.

[romanlegion13th]

yeah i mite give radious's mod a try i did see it, is it really good yeah?
would like to play a campaign in Attila then come back to DEI rome 2 for a while untill we get a good DEI type of mod for ATTILA then can play it proper

is it just me or do the troops feel very fake, not historic in Attila? i like to feel like the troops im commanding could of been like that in real life

[Woden329]

The troop variety is very basic I think is the kindest way of putting it, I like the Attila Radious mod so far I'd recommend trying it. It's no DeI but then again Attila itself brings some cool stuff to the table.

Heres hoping when some of the mod tools come out we may be able to more easily port units from R2 mods over to Attila for a complete overhaul using the new mechanics/AI.

[Butan]

Its obvious Attila v1.0 battles are too fast paced, but they still got some things good : lots of important stats shown (the UI is a bit FUBAR when expanded though), some interesting formation/ability effects (that can be dissambled), and surprising very low to very high units statistical values (tier I fodder have 50 health, some elite and most cav have 200+ health; some cavs have 200+ charge bonus xD with extremely low melee; some melees have very low attack/average defense and extremely high morale; to sum up, lots of interesting "unit concept" in Attila).

Vanilla Attila Battles feels like a kind of experimental pack, compared to Rome 2. There is a lot to learn just playing and observing what the CA devs cooked.

Now, the base content sucks (few units/factions/religions) and there is tons of mistakes and uncool ideas, but still food for thoughts.

[zonks40]

They claim that the extreme settings are for future cards, I think it's a sorry excuse for poor to zero optimization, I've got my GTX970 with Units on extreme and they look very poor compared to the units in Rome 2.
The only redeeming feature of this blatant cash grab (Day 1 DLC, week 1 DLC, 5 more in the Steam DB) is the campaign game, they have added and refined a lot of features people wanted in Rome 2, however it is all lost on me because I find the era very bland, and as stated above, the unit roster is drab, no doubt offering us a glass of milk and demanding payment for the flavouring, which in the end, falls to the modding community anyway.

[Butan]

You play with "unlimited memory" on zonks? If its like with Rome 2, if you play on humongous settings sometimes the game will auto-decrease quality if you dont give access to all your memory. I say that because on extreme you should have some good look.

[zonks40]

You play with "unlimited memory" on zonks? If its like with Rome 2, if you play on humongous settings sometimes the game will auto-decrease quality if you dont give access to all your memory. I say that because on extreme you should have some good look.

Yeah, one of the first things I ticked when setting up was unlimited memory, it may be that I have just been spoilt with DEI for so long, but the battles I find are rubbish, no matter how much I tinker with the DB, I cannot get it to be as good as Rome 2, the campaign however is fantastic, however I don't believe CA will move any features from Atilla to Rome 2 any time soon, nobody would buy Atilla otherwise.

Another thing is CA's futuristic cards for Extreme graphics story, the cards in the future better hope they don't have much RAM on them because the the game still will not pickup more than 3GB of the VRAM.

[BassiveMollocks]

The combat is a bit borked to say the least in Atilla. Doing a WREcampaign so I have really few troops compared to what's coming at me, charge my cav into the rear on some troops engaging mine, they break so I turn my attention elsewhere, I come back and the three units that broke rallied about 50ft away and decimated my guys -.-

I can only hope there will be a mod as good as DeI for Atilla

[gregnaar]

Oor you could stop blaming the game and try to adapt to the different mechanincs. I know its too fast sometimes, but i can manage to win against 2-3 times bigger armies, and i play on normal battle difficulty, because DEI made me regret when i did not.... So if you play with very hard battle dif, dont be surprised if the game is not fair. (im talking about Attila)

[Butan]

The problem with fast pace/fast regroup is not only that its ahistorical/unrealistic to some degree, but it put more weight on Action Per Minute to win and less on tactics. Not necessarily mutually exclusive but there is a balance to maintain between speed and outcome.

When you win because you right clicked 3 seconds faster than your opponent, you lose the scope of real life battles.

[Alu10]

CA knows that faster battles also mean harder battles. Its a rather little thing, looking at how many battle mods are there for rome 2, its easily fixable. Though i must say that the BAI IS improved, the enemies react to threats like charging cav and dont bunch up into by attacking the same unit that often. Cav seem better as well, i was happy with them for rome 2 but now they are even better. I might miss some because the battles are so fast and i only played as huns so far. Its a great game overall, i must say.