Should the Veneti and Raeti be latin/etruscan instead of celtic?

**Ivan_Moscavich** · February 21, 2015, 01:24 PM

I've been doing some reading here recently, and from what I can gather, it sounds like the Veneti on the Adriatic were distinct from the Celtic Veneti that lived on the coast of Brittany.
That they actually shared much more linguistically (and perhaps culturally) with the Latin tribes than they did with Celts, but that they did share similarities in language with the Celts and Illyrians too.

The Raeti seem to have been heavily connected to the Etruscans up until the point that the migrating Celts into the Po Valley cut them off from the Etruscan territories.

"Ancient sources characterise the Raeti as Etruscan people who were displaced from the Po valley by the Gauls and took refuge in the valleys of the Alps. But it is likely that they were predominantly indigenous Alpine people. Their language, the so-called Raetian language, was probably related to Etruscan, but may not have derived from it.^[" from the wiki article, sourced to Cornell (1995) 44.

So is it possible that maybe the Veneti should be considered either latin or Illyrian instead of celtic, and that the Raeti should flat out be Etruscan or modeled with Etruscan culture?

I've only recently starting reading up on this particular thing, so if anyone else has more knowledge or a professional view on it, I certainly won't argue against it.

**thomas_r** · February 21, 2015, 01:28 PM

I am more for some love for the colchis (they seem to have a very few units)

**Ivan_Moscavich** · February 21, 2015, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by thomas_r

I am more for some love for the colchis (they seem to have a very few units)

I'm not sure what that has to do with the potential changing of culture traits and associations of these two factions.

**thomas_r** · February 21, 2015, 01:39 PM

Oh yeah indeed, excuse me Ivan, i read to quickly ... :/

Excuse my apologize

**Goffredo85** · February 21, 2015, 06:56 PM

I actually suggested this in a thread of my own not so much time ago...

**Ivan_Moscavich** · February 21, 2015, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Goffredo85

I actually suggested this in a thread of my own not so much time ago...

I didn't happen to see that one. But I'm glad I'm not the only one who has brought it up then.

**Kirsch27** · February 21, 2015, 08:15 PM

The Veneti might have had ties with the Etruscans, however the game's Latin culture is only given to the Romans, and the Veneti would not have had any motive to spread "Latin" culture in the same way the Romans did. They lived a more tribal style of life like that of the Celts or Illyrians. The Raeti were also linked, however Latin culture really doesn't stand for Etruscan but rather ROMAN values once again in game. Additionally they have been cut off and interbred with the Celts and would likely not have much truly separating the two groups in their society. The Ligurians who you didn't mention are actually the group that is most unlike the others, however they are AFAIK modeled as Celts. The Ligurians were a mystery people possibly connected to the Basque peoples. They had a unique society and had some similarities with the Romans and with the Celts. They rode horses adeptly in the lightly armed style of the neighboring Celts and they wore distinctive robes which were like long togas, even to battle according to some reports. The Ligurians unfortunately are limited to one area and probably won't ever receive a unique culture, however I think they should not be considered Celts. By the end of the game period the Ligurians were dying out, however they lived on for a few hundred more years in their immediate homeland as a distinct cultural group with their own names, customs and traditions. During 270's B.C. the Ligurians were independent though they lived near to Rome's growing influence and power, and were certainly an ethnic and cultural entity all their own.

**Ivan_Moscavich** · February 21, 2015, 09:39 PM

Actually in game both the Romans and Etruscans used Latin Culture for the grand campaign. Unless you're suggesting that the game consider Etruscans as Roman, which I highly doubt.

Regardless, your post sheds some more light on things.

If that's the case, would it then just be sensible to increase or add if none exists, a portion of Latin culture to the Raeti et Noricum region to represent the vestiges of influence the Etruscans had on the region?

I think at least for influence, the celto-Hellenic infantry available in cisalpania and Raeti et Noricum do a decent job of showing how they weren't purely celtic.

And if just two nations can get the Thracian culture and expanded upon, I don't see why the Veneti and Ligurians couldn't get more expanded upon.

It seems kind of a shame to just lump them in with the celts, when it sounds like they weren't just another celtic tribe.

**Goffredo85** · February 22, 2015, 03:59 AM

Of the three people mentioned in this thread the only one that pare worth the effort of a new subculture are the Veneti. While ligurians and reatians were not celtic people, by the time the game starts they were highly celticized at least in matters of warfare which is almost the only element of culture that the game engine is able to represent. Of all the non celtic people of north italy, the veneti were the only ones that retained their original culture almost untouched by foreign influence. Anyway since changing this kind of things in game probably means modifing the startpos, which is an extremely time consuming process, i highly doubt that we would see any change.