Warriors of Faith - Ancient Empires Combat Overhaul Preview

[Shtuka]

Original post updated with the patch 2 compatible version. Take note that some balance related things may be a little off but it should run fine. This is just the basic version, Petellius' extended will be updated later.

Also, thanks to Saitta for helping me out with new troop spacings for all the Celtic units.

WTF? Celtic units has no abilities\formations\traits at all. What the reason to update if we still can not play.

[Sheridan]

Incredibly glad I found this and got to try a little bit of the standard while waiting on the extended. It definitely feels more like older TWs which is much apprecaited.

One thing I've observed, however: Infantry on Infantry seem to be a bit slow. I watched a unit of Armenian spears get sandwiched between two Legio Comitatenses and for around ten mintues there were no casualties period. Something similar happened when I had a two Lanciarii Seniores charge an enemy general: again, didn't look like there was much in the way of killing after a very extended period. Even bringing cavalry in on the second case didn't seem to work well. This is strange because in other engagements it seemed like things were working pretty well.

So I don't know if there's a bug there or if it's save/mod clutter tripping over one another. Any thoughts?

Thanks for trying it out and glad that you're liking it.

This observation isn't new, it has been reported before both for the vanilla game and this mod (presumably other mods as well with that in mind). If there were no casualties, is it possible they were fighting in some sort of chokepoint or an incline? These are the two scenarios where melee fights supposedly don't always work out well. The latter type of terrain bug might actually be related to melee height damage differences, which I will update today, hopefully to some effect. The chokepoint bug is a vanilla issue and unfortunately cannot be dealt with on this end.

WTF? Celtic units has no abilities\formations\traits at all. What the reason to update if we still can not play.

Sorry about that, missed that in the update. Hang on for a few minutes, addressing it asap.

Updated now

[Shtuka]

Sorry about that, missed that in the update. Hang on for a few minutes, addressing it asap.
Updated now

Thank you, sir! Finally, we can start to play.

[Lt.Bradford]

Thanks for trying it out and glad that you're liking it.

This observation isn't new, it has been reported before both for the vanilla game and this mod (presumably other mods as well with that in mind). If there were no casualties, is it possible they were fighting in some sort of chokepoint or an incline? These are the two scenarios where melee fights supposedly don't always work out well. The latter type of terrain bug might actually be related to melee height damage differences, which I will update today, hopefully to some effect. The chokepoint bug is a vanilla issue and unfortunately cannot be dealt with on this end.

It could very well be both. I'll look more closely in my next battle. I also noticed that missile damage was a little wonky right (Horse archers and crossbows not killing one another- artillery seems fine if not more devastating) now as well, but again I think some of this might be saves/mods tripping over one another. I didn't see any starpos modifications, but are there?

[Sheridan]

It could very well be both. I'll look more closely in my next battle. I also noticed that missile damage was a little wonky right (Horse archers and crossbows not killing one another- artillery seems fine if not more devastating) now as well, but again I think some of this might be saves/mods tripping over one another. I didn't see any starpos modifications, but are there?

There shouldn't be any issues with projectiles though I'd recommend you start over, or try custom battles to see if the undesired results can be reproduced. On startpos modifications, this was left out after patch 1. It's simply too much work to update after each new patch, taking hours at least for rather minor changes.

[Lt.Bradford]

Incredibly glad I found this and got to try a little bit of the standard while waiting on the extended. It definitely feels more like older TWs which is much apprecaited.

One thing I've observed, however: Infantry on Infantry seem to be a bit slow. I watched a unit of Armenian spears get sandwiched between two Legio Comitatenses and for around ten mintues there were no casualties period. Something similar happened when I had a two Lanciarii Seniores charge an enemy general: again, didn't look like there was much in the way of killing after a very extended period. Even bringing cavalry in on the second case didn't seem to work well. This is strange because in other engagements it seemed like things were working pretty well.

So I don't know if there's a bug there or if it's save/mod clutter tripping over one another. Any thoughts?

[Sunderlorn]

This mod sounds excellent, but I'm guessing it's not compatible with units added by other mods? The Radious Total Units Mod, for instance?

[Black9]

This mod sounds excellent, but I'm guessing it's not compatible with units added by other mods? The Radious Total Units Mod, for instance?

That's correct.

[Sunderlorn]

That's correct.

Well, if anything's gonna make me switch off RTU and try out something new, it's this. Let's see now...

[Sunderlorn]

Seems also not to be compatible with the core Radious campaign mod, even loaded with priority over it. I get stuck on the logo before the main menu with it, sadly, so might have to wait to play this until the full Ancient Empires overhaul is out...

Unless of course there's some fix that'll let the Radious campaign mod and this battle mod coexist, and I've just been too stupid to think of it?

[Black9]

Seems also not to be compatible with the core Radious campaign mod, even loaded with priority over it. I get stuck on the logo before the main menu with it, sadly, so might have to wait to play this until the full Ancient Empires overhaul is out...

Unless of course there's some fix that'll let the Radious campaign mod and this battle mod coexist, and I've just been too stupid to think of it?

You'd have to find out which tables ate conflicting and then delete/edit one of them to make it match. Mitchs mod manager would be a step in the right direction, but both mods use a lot of tables.

[Sunderlorn]

You'd have to find out which tables ate conflicting and then delete/edit one of them to make it match. Mitchs mod manager would be a step in the right direction, but both mods use a lot of tables.

Hrmn. The mod manager's telling me they edit a lot of the same tables. About seven conflicts, I think. Might just try a few custom battles with this mod active, then return reluctantly to straight Radious... For now, anyway.

Still, this looks like a very promising mod! I'll be keeping an eye on it, and AE, and anticipating awesome things.

[Petellius]

Hrmn. The mod manager's telling me they edit a lot of the same tables. About seven conflicts, I think. Might just try a few custom battles with this mod active, then return reluctantly to straight Radious... For now, anyway.

Still, this looks like a very promising mod! I'll be keeping an eye on it, and AE, and anticipating awesome things.

Something tells me Ancient Empires will be worth the wait when it finally gets released on Attila, beta should be out on Rome 2 before summer break (fingers crossed). Also while I am here and currently cannot mod (Im away from my PC a while) does anyone have any ideas about how I could reduce the casualties of a unit when it is in the routing/shattered state. They get wiped out almost instantly and that kind of ruins what the battles in AE are going for. Thanks for any tips in advance, I'll get playing when I return in two weeks and have WOFE updated for you all

[Draewn]

You could have the lowest morale states give a bonus to defensive attributes like Armor and Melee Defense, I suppose. Haven't seen it done, but I imagine it would work. Decreasing the defense malus for being moving, if that's moddable, (haven't looked at the stuff) would also seem like a viable option, though I think it'd have the side effect that retreating units from melee and so on is easier - not sure whether that'd be a plus or a minus for you guys.

Though actually I may have been thinking of the table for altering fatigue effects. I'll go check that.

[Petellius]

You could have the lowest morale states give a bonus to defensive attributes like Armor and Melee Defense, I suppose. Haven't seen it done, but I imagine it would work. Decreasing the defense malus for being moving, if that's moddable, (haven't looked at the stuff) would also seem like a viable option, though I think it'd have the side effect that retreating units from melee and so on is easier - not sure whether that'd be a plus or a minus for you guys.

Though actually I may have been thinking of the table for altering fatigue effects. I'll go check that.

That is the table I most often use, an interesting idea, though not sure it would work, but worth a shot. I do need to reduce casualties in retreating units as the AI seems to think it necessary to bloody run units through or away from my battle lines for no reason.

[Wintercross]

That is the table I most often use, an interesting idea, though not sure it would work, but worth a shot. I do need to reduce casualties in retreating units as the AI seems to think it necessary to bloody run units through or away from my battle lines for no reason.

Could you make Routing units run a little faster than normal? That might help reduce casualties

[Petellius]

Could you make Routing units run a little faster than normal? That might help reduce casualties

All routing units already outpace those chasing them.

[Dingkuhn]

That's weird, when I play the WRE or the Jutes (with the same army composition) against another faction the crash don't seem to occur (same map and settings). Any idea what it could be?

[Cesco]

I do need to reduce casualties in retreating units as the AI seems to think it necessary to bloody run units through or away from my battle lines for no reason.

If you find a way to resolve this issue, please let me know...it's really bothering

[Petellius]

If you find a way to resolve this issue, please let me know...it's really bothering

I found a way to reduce it so that around 150 out of 240 manage to escape around 1 out of 3 times but thats the best I can do so far