Warriors of Faith - Ancient Empires Combat Overhaul Preview

[Velikii Kniaz]

Thanks! You have tabular values? I want to understand a difference with other mods. I try this in my campaign. Later i will share my impressions.

[Sheridan]

You'll want to do a balance pass on campaign modifiers as soon as feasible - in my test game I had a general lacking in Cunning, thus leading to his elite bodyguard having a Melee Defense of -2. A bit... drastic, in the re-scaled numbers.

Oh, thanks for letting me know. That's a little bit over the top, it should rather be a defense of 0 until the general has reached a certain level of cunning. Will see to it with an update today.

Edit: Attribute effects have now been fixed and a new version is up in the OP. It was actually -20 defense, so drastic may be an understatement.

@Velikii Kniaz

Most of the mod is made up of database tables, yeah, with a few exceptions. I'm pretty sure troops cannot renew casualties in real time; there are game mechanics prohbiting that as far as I'm aware. If you have screenshots of it however it may be worth investigating. On the ERE campaign, is the battle balance not to your liking or is it rather that the hordes are a little oversized and pillage the countryside unchallenged? A fairly large ERE army should be able to deal with both of theirs, under the right conditions. :p

[Petellius]

Warriors of Faith Extended

This is my addition to Sheridan's original work on Warriors of Faith and is almost the exact battle mechanics that will be used in the Antiqua Imperium overhaul that sets Attila in republican Roman Era. The main difference is speed as combat is much slower and designed to last around 10-15 minutes on a large battle. Here is a list of the additions/changes:

- Reduced accuracy of missiles, particularly siege engines.
- Reduced combat speed
- Reduced losses for both victors and those defeated
- Intelligent and dynamic cavalry charges
- Complex fatigue system
- Reduced fatigue effects
- Increased hit points for naval combat as well as slower ships and less powerful ramming.
- Slightly changed fire mechanics
- Overhauled morale

Overhauled morale and fatigue system

The morale has been increased a little, with units tending to flee once their unit drops below half strength. With the fatigue system morale now slowly lowers over time as well as the added negatives of being tired, very tired and exhausted. In this way that annoying flank maneuver that the enemy did may well become a reason to run later on when the men are tired and starting to collapse. Furthermore the longer combat goes on the less effective the men become at attacking, defending, hitting first, blocking missiles, bracing against cavalry charges and they are also less likely to catch units that run from them. To this end cavalry or light units are needed to chase down routing units effectively.


Dynamic Cavalry Charges

No longer will those levy spearmen be able to just shrug off cavalry charges with ease. Now, training, shield size, spacing and morale will effect a units ability to stop cavalry dead in their tracks. This is as any unit that is low in morale and not disciplined enough to hold against a cavalry charge will almost start running before the cavalry even hits them. On the other hand, all disciplined units in a tight formation (not just spears) will frighten the cavalry as they will refuse to charge into a massed block of shields and pointy weapons, leaving them at the mercy of the infantry counter charge. Spears are still more effective against cavalry.

If you have any questions feel free to ask and I will answer.

Philip is just checking the pack now and it should be up in the OP soon.

thanks,
Petellius and the AI team

[wrcromartie]

nice - will download and try this out

[ememe]

Logically and most probably historically stationary cavalry was as soft as a target as a group of peasants to elephants with triple gold upgrade (form ye olden days), unless it was very heavy armored. This is why skirmisher cav was so very popular throughout history. Total war never really showed this, is there any chance you can work that into this mod (it having a 1 hp system)

[Draewn]

You'll want to do a balance pass on campaign modifiers as soon as feasible - in my test game I had a general lacking in Cunning, thus leading to his elite bodyguard having a Melee Defense of -2. A bit... drastic, in the re-scaled numbers.

[Wuktrio]

I just played a campaign battle and I have to say that I like the mod, but I have two little complaints.

First of all: Please give the camera back its height! I played a battle in a forest and all I saw was treetops

And the second complaint (actually not a real complaint): I played TW:A with Radious Mod and this changes the upkeep costs of all units (it basically lowers them). Now with Warriors of the Faith my income dropped to minus 25 000 per turn. Would my income come back again to what it used to be with Radious Mod when I place Radious Mod above WotF in the Mod Manager or would this also change the combat stats of the units?

Edit: Did you change the combat speed of horses? Because my Elite Sarmatian Cataphracts are outrun by basic archers and I was only able to kill them once they reached the borders of the battlefield.
Also Alan Agathyrsi Warriors have 9 armor and are classified as tier 2 light melee infantry, but the Elite Agathyrsi Warriors have only 6 armor even though they are wearing armor on the picture and are medium melee infantry.

Kind regards

[Sheridan]

I just played a campaign battle and I have to say that I like the mod, but I have two little complaints.

First of all: Please give the camera back its height! I played a battle in a forest and all I saw was treetops

And the second complaint (actually not a real complaint): I played TW:A with Radious Mod and this changes the upkeep costs of all units (it basically lowers them). Now with Warriors of the Faith my income dropped to minus 25 000 per turn. Would my income come back again to what it used to be with Radious Mod when I place Radious Mod above WotF in the Mod Manager or would this also change the combat stats of the units?

Kind regards

Thanks for your comment Wuktrio!

On the first matter, that's a fair enough request. I put it low like in the previous titles since it enhances the prescence of troops - they don't get reduced to mere icons so much if you get what I mean, and you have to keep a keen eye on each flank at all times. Anyway, I realize a lot of people are used to the vanilla camera settings so here you go: https://www.sendspace.com/file/ml38qx

To counter the upkeep differences you unfortunately need to start a new campaign I'm afraid. Switching priority of the mods would likely nullify most of the combat changes. You could give it a try, but my recommendation is to start a separate campaign. Sorry for the inconvenience

Edit: Running and walking speeds have not been changed, but ship movement speed is reduced slightly. On the armour discrepancy, basically that's of CA's making. Some armour types on the unit cards don't match what a unit actually is wearing, and similarly, some armours aren't paired together with the right stat (the visuals of a unit are merely cosmetic). We're working to sort that out, some of it has been addressed already - primarily for the Huns and Alans - but more complete adjustments to this should be ready by tomorrow, alongside with the new DLC coming out.

Best regards

[Petellius]

Thanks for your comment Wuktrio!

On the first matter, that's a fair enough request. I put it low like in the previous titles since it enhances the prescence of troops - they don't get reduced to mere icons so much if you get what I mean, and you have to keep a keen eye on each flank at all times. Anyway, I realize a lot of people are used to the vanilla camera settings so here you go: https://www.sendspace.com/file/ml38qx

To counter the upkeep differences you unfortunately need to start a new campaign I'm afraid. Switching priority of the mods would likely nullify most of the combat changes. You could give it a try, but my recommendation is to start a separate campaign. Sorry for the inconvenience

Edit: Running and walking speeds have not been changed, but ship movement speed is reduced slightly. On the armour discrepancy, basically that's of CA's making. Some armour types on the unit cards don't match what a unit actually is wearing, and similarly, some armours aren't paired together with the right stat (the visuals of a unit are merely cosmetic). We're working to sort that out, some of it has been addressed already - primarily for the Huns and Alans - but more complete adjustments to this should be ready by tomorrow, alongside with the new DLC coming out.

Best regards

If he is using the extended version then the speeds have been changed, if it is that version I will give it a look over and increase horse run speed. All walk speeds are the same now btw. I find it annoying walking in formation and cav and missiles messing up the ordered lines xD

[Wuktrio]

If he is using the extended version then the speeds have been changed, if it is that version I will give it a look over and increase horse run speed.

I am using the version in OP, I don't know which one this is.

All walk speeds are the same now btw. I find it annoying walking in formation and cav and missiles messing up the ordered lines xD

I agree, but it would be cool to have three running speeds for cavalry according to the three horse gaits: walk (infantry speed), trot (main travel speed for horses) and gallop (for charge or fast movements).
Would it be moddable to make cavalry use walk if selected with infantry, use trot when only horses are selected and you click once and gallop if only horses and clicked twice?

[Petellius]

I am using the version in OP, I don't know which one this is.

I agree, but it would be cool to have three running speeds for cavalry according to the three horse gaits: walk (infantry speed), trot (main travel speed for horses) and gallop (for charge or fast movements).
Would it be moddable to make cavalry use walk if selected with infantry, use trot when only horses are selected and you click once and gallop if only horses and clicked twice?

Then yours is the normal version

And yes I totally agree but its not really possible without putting the AI at a huge disadvantage.

[Wuktrio]

Thanks for your fast answer!

I even have a mod to increase the height of the camera even more because I like to overview the battlefield, but thank you!

The mods are save compatible as far as I experienced, if I disable WotF my income is positive, if I enable it it is negative.
But maybe I can find a mod that changes upkeep costs or mod them myself, let's see

Kind regards

[ponasozis]

can you upload this mod somewhere else
i can t download it it just shows a blank website when i click download

[Sheridan]

can you upload this mod somewhere else
i can t download it it just shows a blank website when i click download

Here, see if this one works, http://speedy.sh/GQmZM/Attila-The-Great.pack

[ponasozis]

Here, see if this one works, http://speedy.sh/GQmZM/Attila-The-Great.pack

Thanks
tried the mod out
Now i don t want to play attila without this mod

[Sheridan]

Thanks
tried the mod out
Now i don t want to play attila without this mod

That's very encouraging.

Admittedly, there are still a few things to address. Ancillaries (household retainers) and governor offices have been adjusted to fit the new system - just waiting to update with that basically. However we discovered that the melee and defense penalties were a bit severe in siege defenses, so that needs to be fixed as well. There'll likely be an update including all those changes today. After that every campaign and battle element should be adapted to the changes.

Edit: OP updated with fixes for all these things. Bonuses or penalties from campaign and battle positions or elements are now in line with the other changes from the mod.

[Draewn]

Been trying the "extended edition" - main thing I've noticed has been with Missiles.

Visually, the current level of accuracy and range is wonderful - but the end result on target has been very, very effective. Particularly against lightly armored forces like the various Germans, even the cheaper archers wreak havoc, and a good Plumbata charge kills as much as half the enemy unit (sometimes even more!) before you've even made contact. Thoughts?

Note: This is from battles against the AI on Normal difficulty in Custom Battle.

[Petellius]

Been trying the "extended edition" - main thing I've noticed has been with Missiles.

Visually, the current level of accuracy and range is wonderful - but the end result on target has been very, very effective. Particularly against lightly armored forces like the various Germans, even the cheaper archers wreak havoc, and a good Plumbata charge kills as much as half the enemy unit (sometimes even more!) before you've even made contact. Thoughts?

Note: This is from battles against the AI on Normal difficulty in Custom Battle.

Yes I am aware of this and am distraught as only the day before they were fine but thats modding for you. Once we have made a patch for the new Longbeard units I will be fixing this in the very same patch. Javelins have been massively reduced and missiles generally across the board a little changed too. Also I've been finding cavalry arent as powerful as I would like sometimes, these are all things that will be fixed and you will hopefully begin to see much more dynamic and longer battles. Apologies for the slightly rough beginning, but hey at least I'm not as bad as CA

[Sheridan]

I think Petellius kept a little higher damages for missiles, we approached the matter slightly differently. Anyway, there's a lot of other things besides of the reworked damage model that has been changed. The UI or the hundreds of new unit spacings should be as notable at a glance.

[ABH2]

I'm impressed by the speed at which you guys produced it. I like the two versions being released, but I'm most interested in getting feedback for the overhaul. People who don't give the work a try are doing themselves a disservice, in my view.