Returning to Roma Surrectum 2, but first...

[Arkangel]

Alright lads,

So I've been away and come back, seen Rome 2 on steam sale, bought it and all the DLC with it, I was not shocked to see that while there was plenty of new content and detail it didn't fill the hole left by Roma Surrectum 2 my main issues with all new Total Wars is the engine, I find it makes battles more arcadey?

Anyways I'm planning on returning to RS2 but I still have one problem which kills it for me stupidly, the hellenic hoplites not ranking up properly, and sometimes not doing and commanded, they are just very buggey for some reason, I know no fix has yet been found, but for me it really kills the battles, a previous thread: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ne-up-properly

If I may make a suggestion, as far as I remember in Roma Surrectum 1 the hoplites had no such issues, would copying over the animation text fix it? or something similar?

Cheers.

[dvk901]

Unfortunately, I have come to the conclusion that the problem is with the animations....and there's no way to change them, because the models don't work with any others. Guess it's just 'one of those things' a Greek General has to deal with. Just yell and swear at them a lot for being stupid.

[Arkangel]

Editted: Retarded reply

[dvk901]

Very different and older models in RS1. ALL of the models in RS2 were made by Tone or a couple others.

[Arkangel]

Very different and older models in RS1. ALL of the models in RS2 were made by Tone or a couple others.

I'm not going to ask how but would it be as simple as copying the relevant text relating to the animations of a non-bugged hoplite unit and then replacing those of the buggy ones?

Thanks again

[Arkangel]

Just realised hoplites in RS1 actually were vanilla animations, just noticed though (not got RS2 installed yet btw) that Spartan "Ekdromoi? Hoplites" the cheap ones in orange cloth with the beards dont have the bug and are hoplites?

[dvk901]

Ohhhh....no. It would be a nightmare even for an experienced coder. The DMB in RS2 is so complicated that there were times even I didn't understand what Tone was trying to do....especially with Greek units. Many, many units in RS2 share a single model...but he called them 'multi-models'...where one model actually provided the means of rendering several different units with completely different textures. In those cases, Tone had to write the code because only he knew what texture did what, with what model.

[Arkangel]

You're killing me here lol I hate how the hoplites just do their own thing

[Arkangel]

I might be blind but I've been trying to find a "How to" thread on RS' modding cause I will happily wallow away hours trying to fix the animations myself, anywhere someone might be able to refer me?

[dvk901]

When I was trying to fix this, I tried every animation known to me in that effort......but it is a specific type of animation, as many of these hoplite fight in the 'over-hand' style, and they have to, because the models are built that way. The one thing I never got much time to experiment with was unit spacing...or, the way within the unit itself that soldiers are lined up. It could be that they are too close together, and the officers therefore need to 'step forward' to avoid an invisible area where they don't seem to be able to stand.

I'm just guessing here, but I think this may be the more likely issue with these units.

[Arkangel]

I sort of understand but how come some hoplites using that fighting stance do work and others dont? sorry for persisting, I am a lowly mortal at this but surely if one unit works it means the rest can?

[MacBlain]

If you make a walking animation that takes the scene root somewhere other than the game expects it to be, like for instance a "walk forward" animation that actually veers slightly to one side, the units will end up standing somewhere other than their yellow arrow markers. I strongly suspect that there is a very slight error in one or more of the walking animations for this skeleton, but after poring over them I've never been able to find it.

Notice that the only hoplites who have this problem use the same skeleton. You can tell them to use one of the similar skeletons instead for a quick fix, but this will leave them holding their spears upside-down.

[Arkangel]

If you make a walking animation that takes the scene root somewhere other than the game expects it to be, like for instance a "walk forward" animation that actually veers slightly to one side, the units will end up standing somewhere other than their yellow arrow markers. I strongly suspect that there is a very slight error in one or more of the walking animations for this skeleton, but after poring over them I've never been able to find it.

Notice that the only hoplites who have this problem use the same skeleton. You can tell them to use one of the similar skeletons instead for a quick fix, but this will leave them holding their spears upside-down.

Forgive me but i dont think its that because the unit goes where you want it to in deployment and also the units not only arrive 10m short of their destination they form split their ranks as if another unit were passing through them

[20ninescene]

Maybe you can port the Hegemonia City States hoplite animation (yes they have a new hoplite animation) to RSII and see what it does. I didn't tried it, I'm only suggesting a solution. It might not work. And if it works I suggest to create new sprites for the affected units 'cause otherwise there is no smooth transition when you zoom in. (but that's only a minor detail)

[Arkangel]

Maybe you can port the Hegemonia City States hoplite animation (yes they have a new hoplite animation) to RSII and see what it does. I didn't tried it, I'm only suggesting a solution. It might not work. And if it works I suggest to create new sprites for the affected units 'cause otherwise there is no smooth transition when you zoom in. (but that's only a minor detail)

How might I do that? :O

[Arkangel]

So I think I've fixed it

There are 2 ways actually

The first is going into descr_model_battle and swapping the buggy hoplites "fs_o_f_spearmen" to "fs_s1_hoplite" now MacBlain said previously in the post i linked in my original post that they hold their spears wrong? but for me they actually dont? but I may not have noticed, I've tested them in battle and they now work fine

The second method is by going into export_descr_unit and changing the soldier setting from "bosporan_pergamon_hoplite" to say "thorakitai_hoplite" or any other hoplite which works, however! this makes the unit look like a Thorakitai Hoplite unit so it would need someone to say copy the thorakitai_hoplite animation or skeleton? and replace the skin with that of the Hoplites you are trying to fix?

Let me know if this works for you guys?

[tone]

It's quite a long time ago as well and even I can't remember what I did!

[dvk901]

Well, here's an interesting thing. I changed this:

type bosporan_pergamon_hoplite ;;paired bosporan and pergamon hoplites
skeleton fs_o_f_spearman, fs_s1_slow_swordsman


To this:

type bosporan_pergamon_hoplite ;;paired bosporan and pergamon hoplites
skeleton fs_fast_javelinman, fs_s1_slow_swordsman

And it worked perfectly. (This what HCS uses, BTW, Wraith of eternal doom) Then I fought a battle with these hoplites and they worked perfectly. Now, that's just one test. But if someone would try this for all of the hoplites that use the 'fs_o_f_spearman' animation, and see if that corrects the problem, I would much appreciate it and will fix it in the next release.

BTW, Arkangel, you're solution of replacing "bosporan_pergamon_hoplite" with "thorakitai_hoplite" is not a good idea. The Bosporan and Pergamon model is shared by all factions, the thorakitai_hoplite is not. The result will be a CTD the first time another faction tries to use that unit and doesn't 'own' it in DMB. Besides, it isn't the right unit.

[Arkangel]

Well, here's an interesting thing. I changed this:

type bosporan_pergamon_hoplite ;;paired bosporan and pergamon hoplites
skeleton fs_o_f_spearman, fs_s1_slow_swordsman


To this:

type bosporan_pergamon_hoplite ;;paired bosporan and pergamon hoplites
skeleton fs_fast_javelinman, fs_s1_slow_swordsman

And it worked perfectly. (This what HCS uses, BTW, Wraith of eternal doom) Then I fought a battle with these hoplites and they worked perfectly. Now, that's just one test. But if someone would try this for all of the hoplites that use the 'fs_o_f_spearman' animation, and see if that corrects the problem, I would much appreciate it and will fix it in the next release.

BTW, Arkangel, you're solution of replacing "bosporan_pergamon_hoplite" with "thorakitai_hoplite" is not a good idea. The Bosporan and Pergamon model is shared by all factions, the thorakitai_hoplite is not. The result will be a CTD the first time another faction tries to use that unit and doesn't 'own' it in DMB. Besides, it isn't the right unit.

Is fs_fast_javelinman's skeleton better than fs_s1_hoplite's?

[MacBlain]

Ah, I hadn't tried javelinman as an alternative! It works perfectly! A simple "replace all" fixes the problem, although we give up that lovely skeleton.

I'm pretty certain there's some very small deviation in o_f_spearman's movement animations that sends them off-track.