Authentic Faction Names

[♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠]

I came here for an update, which I see has happened since I last checked. Thing is I wont be dl'ing it because I dont agree with some of the names. Separatist Factions like Britain should not be called Diocese Britanianum. That's just a -religious-provincial name, and doesnt reflect the historical situation of the collapse of the WRE, nor a situation where a region has separated from the central rulership. It also doenst consider the (very likely) chance that these factions appear due to non-roman influence (therefore non-latin christian). Go for Concilium Britanniae rather, as it was briefly referred to during the "Arthurian period". Dioceses are not going to separate from the centralised church of Rome, are they? Then they wouldn't be a diocese! So there's not much point in having a separatist faction for them.
You should instead go for a term like Exarchate (meaning independent governorship). See Exarchate of Ravenna, Exarchate of Bulgaria, Exarchate of Africa etc etc

[Augustusng]

I came here for an update, which I see has happened since I last checked. Thing is I wont be dl'ing it because I dont agree with some of the names. Separatist Factions like Britain should not be called Diocese Britanianum. That's just a -religious-provincial name, and doesnt reflect the historical situation of the collapse of the WRE, nor a situation where a region has separated from the central rulership. It also doenst consider the (very likely) chance that these factions appear due to non-roman influence (therefore non-latin christian). Go for Concilium Britanniae rather, as it was briefly referred to during the "Arthurian period". Dioceses are not going to separate from the centralised church of Rome, are they? Then they wouldn't be a diocese! So there's not much point in having a separatist faction for them.
You should instead go for a term like Exarchate (meaning independent governorship). See Exarchate of Ravenna, Exarchate of Bulgaria, Exarchate of Africa etc etc

Diocese doesn't mean what you think it means. These were administrative regions - not religious in nature - created under Diocletian's reign, and they seem to correspond the best to the various emergent factions. Later on as the Empire collapsed, diocese came to have a religious meaning. But not yet. Exarchate doesn't even come into use until after this period - it would fit it the Last Roman campaign perhaps.

[♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠]

So how would a roman name for a provincial region be suitable for a separatist faction? The entire point is that if they are SEPARATISTS, they would not call themselves a province of the Roman Empire. If they are created by a non-roman faction, this point would be even more obvious. Name a diocese that was not part of the roman empire. This is not the Crisis of the Third century. This is the breaking up of the empire.

[Augustusng]

So how would a roman name for a provincial region be suitable for a separatist faction? The entire point is that if they are SEPARATISTS, they would not call themselves a province of the Roman Empire. If they are created by a non-roman faction, this point would be even more obvious. Name a diocese that was not part of the roman empire. This is not the Crisis of the Third century. This is the breaking up of the empire.

Because it's the only name I've found that makes any sense, as all the existing emergent factions correspond with a diocese. It's certainly better than Concilium or Exarchate.

[zombieflanders]

So how would a roman name for a provincial region be suitable for a separatist faction? The entire point is that if they are SEPARATISTS, they would not call themselves a province of the Roman Empire. If they are created by a non-roman faction, this point would be even more obvious. Name a diocese that was not part of the roman empire. This is not the Crisis of the Third century. This is the breaking up of the empire.

Can we not do this demanding tone thing here? You already came into the thread bragging about how horrible this one minor aspect was that it actually prevented you from downloading the mod, which is really rude; getting fighty with the modder's very polite, well-reasoned, and sourced response just makes things worse. You could have easily made the changes you wanted in PFM in less time than it took to write your comments (which is what I did for ranks/titles), made more constructive criticisms, and left both yourself and Augustusng happier people.

[Eldgrimr]

I see that you have been having trouble with the Jutes, fortunately I live in Sweden and have studied pretty much Old Norse, and I can tell you for certain that Jutes in Old Norse is Jótar.

[Augustusng]

I see that you have been having trouble with the Jutes, fortunately I live in Sweden and have studied pretty much Old Norse, and I can tell you for certain that Jutes in Old Norse is Jótar.

Thank you! I really couldn't find this, though I managed to find the Old Norse names for the other Norse factions. Guess it helps when you can actually read Old Norse. I'll add this to the next version of the mod, along with some faction names for the Last Roman campaign.

[Augustusng]

Update - I've added preliminary versions of faction names for the Last Roman Campaign to both versions of the mod. Let me know what you think. I've kept all the playable factions in Latin for both versions of the mod, since most/all of these factions were using Latin in an official capacity by this point.

I should also note that since I don't actually have a copy of the Last Roman yet, I can't check whether the names are correctly applied in-game. I'll rely on feedback here for that.

[Augustusng]

Updated for the Empires of Sand DLC. I couldn't find a good source for the Tanukhid faction name, but for the endonyms I've gone with "Tanukh" for now, as that appears to be the Arabic, and for the Latin, I've gone with "Saraceni" - the only Roman sources I could find that might refer to the Tanukhids only mention them as "Saraceni."

Also I don't have a good name for their faction group. Let me know if you can think of something.

[Antiokhos Euergetes]

A third-century inscription from Umm al-Jimal in Jordan, .reads `This is the tomb of Fihr, son of Shullai, the tutor of Gadhimat, the king of Tanukh' (the translation of Littmann, PAES 4.A, 38). See as well on this, Sartre, Trois etudes, 134; Isaac, Limits, 239.in Greek the key part is 'Η στήλη αυτη Φέρου Σαλλαου Γαδιμθου Βασιλέυς Θανουηνων

[Augustusng]

Cool, maybe I can Latinize that, or at least start looking for something like that in Latin.

[zombieflanders]

Playing as Mamlakat Himyar, savegame names are all jumbled together and you can't save unless you rename.

[Augustusng]

Playing as Mamlakat Himyar, savegame names are all jumbled together and you can't save unless you rename.

The names are affecting the savegames? First time I hear something like that. I've played a few campaigns with this mod myself, with no issues like that. Could be something with the new DLC I guess, but hmmm...

[zombieflanders]

Yeah, it's weird, my last game was as the ERE, and I never ran into this problem. I even tried clearing out old savegames. Anyway, here's a screenshot:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Augustusng]

That is bizarre. Want to try with just that faction name reverted to normal?

[zombieflanders]

That is bizarre. Want to try with just that faction name reverted to normal?

Same problem (modified just the name entries in PFM), I can see that it's just "Himyar," but it's still garbled and mixed up with the date. I also tried the other DLC factions, and the WRE just to see if it was a length issue, but they all look fine.

[zombieflanders]

Suggestion for the endonym version: names for separatist factions derived from lesser clans, conquered tribes local to the faction's origin/capital, or alternate names. I'm thinking here of the Silingi (Vandals), Saba/Hadhramaut (Himyar), Thervingi (Visigoths), Ripuarii (Franks), and Blemmyes (Nobatia), just to name a few. I think it would add a lot of flavor and it definitely removes even more English names from the list.

[Augustusng]

So a question for anyone interested. I'm of course going to be updating this mod for the Charlemagne DLC and the White Huns in a few days. Any suggestions for any of those faction names? I'll start researching this myself soon, but if anyone has any thoughts, I'd appreciate them. Especially for the White Huns/Hephtalites... just from a cursory google search, I've noticed that there are about a dozen different names that could work for them. I'll have to narrow that down.

Suggestion for the endonym version: names for separatist factions derived from lesser clans, conquered tribes local to the faction's origin/capital, or alternate names. I'm thinking here of the Silingi (Vandals), Saba/Hadhramaut (Himyar), Thervingi (Visigoths), Ripuarii (Franks), and Blemmyes (Nobatia), just to name a few. I think it would add a lot of flavor and it definitely removes even more English names from the list.

Also something like this might end up being part of EP, but in a slightly different form. I'll let you know once we've got something more specific.

[Cope]

So a question for anyone interested. I'm of course going to be updating this mod for the Charlemagne DLC and the White Huns in a few days. Any suggestions for any of those faction names? I'll start researching this myself soon, but if anyone has any thoughts, I'd appreciate them. Especially for the White Huns/Hephtalites... just from a cursory google search, I've noticed that there are about a dozen different names that could work for them. I'll have to narrow that down.



Also something like this might end up being part of EP, but in a slightly different form. I'll let you know once we've got something more specific.

Regnum Caroli/Francia Caroli/Francia occidentalis/regnum Francorum occidentalium

rep please.

[Augustusng]

It's a good idea, but I might leave that sort of thing to be part of my bigger overhaul, Europa Perdita (could maybe even flesh out a few of those some more). Maybe some could work as part of this smaller mod though...